Delta Flow-Up

[FBN0223]

If DAL announced furloughs tomorrow the Compass pilots could all be completely flushed to the street; Mesaba would only take on the number that have flowed up to NWA (12-13 I think).

In the event of a flow-down to Compass, Delta pilots should, at the very least, get longevity credit for pay purposes.

A flow-down is a real possibility after the SOC.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

How much of a chance do you really think this will be carried out? I find it hard to believe that Delta/NW (now Delta) which have in the past as I remember hired a large percentage of military pilots...

When the next year of hiring occurs, and lets say only 240 are hired in that year, there will be NO military pilots hired? I find it very hard to believe knowing that a substantial part of their pilot group is military...

There were no military in my class.



However, I do agree with you...they are going to build those classes out of a ratio of flows, military, and off the street.

 

[staylow]

Why even talk about flow through...never flows forward, just back. Plus, DL is going to most likely furlough 2000 pilots in the near future. Who cares.

 

[Metro752]

Why would anyone want a 1000 hour military pilot over a 6000 hour guy with 121 experience in Avros, Saabs, and CRJs, maybe even the E175 if he moved over to Compass?

 

[NuGuy]

Nu,

I generally agree with what you wrote and am beginning to accept your conclusion.

I would only point out the regionals recently have achieved some basic scope and if ALPA could build consensus and agree on a common strategy, the profession could be rebuilt under ALPA. In fact, that would be the best way to go forward in an ideal world.

When ALPA took a stand against B Scale, those who advocated B scales created a much worse monster by moving the cheap end of the operation off the property.

The APA's answer is all American Flying will be performed by American's pilots. ALPA's smartest strategists think that is way too expensive to be bargained back. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out.

Heyas Fins,

Sigh...I wish it wasn't so. You and I have discussed this at length, and I believe that we are in agreement about most, if not everything, regarding this issue.

In a perfect world, one-list, achieved via a staple with "super seniority" for those DCI pilots that wish to remain in the highest paying position at the DCI carrier at the time of enactment seemed like a reasonable solution. Throw in a taste of longevity for vacation/benefit accrual and call it done.

My guess is that %90 of the DCIers and about %80 of the mainline guys would buy off on this. But there are personalities that will never let that happen, and unfortunately, it will scuttle the whole idea, and, in fact, will even prevent meaningful dialog on the topic.

The only alternative, IMHO, is a slash and burn strategy. Grab the flying any way possible, which would put many, many DCIers on the street.

Tough cookies, but it's time to start protecting our own.

Nu

 

[Heavy Set]

Why even talk about flow through...never flows forward, just back. Plus, DL is going to most likely furlough 2000 pilots in the near future. Who cares.

My friends at Delta say there could be some buyouts offered for NWA pilots, and new trip duty rigs for NWA guys too. You don't sound credible.

 

[koepp]

When the next year of hiring occurs, and lets say only 240 are hired in that year, there will be NO military pilots hired? I find it very hard to believe knowing that a substantial part of their pilot group is military...

Only 85 or so can come from Compass each rolling 12 month period (25% of the pilot group); 108 per year can come from Mesaba (max of nine per month or 10% of their pilot group). If DAL hired 240 pilots, it would probably not be in 12 classes of 20, rather a few much larger classes. lets say they hired 60/month for four months: the first 20 each of those four months would be from Compass, the second nine from Mesaba, and the rest from where ever DAL wants. In this case, 80 of the 240 would be Compass, 36 Mesaba, and 124 off the street. I think that this is far more likely than any of the examples I gave earlier.

 

[lakemead1]

deleted

 

[peter185]

Why would anyone want a 1000 hour military pilot over a 6000 hour guy with 121 experience in Avros, Saabs, and CRJs, maybe even the E175 if he moved over to Compass?

Nice try.

 

[Question4U]

Good luck with the slow through fast back. Have you not noticed that they don't work look at eagle. You are also talking about a number of regional's being involed which will just make it that much more of a cluster. Good luck with it.

 

[rumrunner300]

The pain hasn't even begun yet.

It would be better to have this conversation sometime in 2015.

Once sufficient distance is achieved from the close date of the merger, Delta will draw down significantly and there will be furloughs. Once people start retiring again in 2012, it will take several years to get through all the recalls.

I hate to crap on anyone's hope, but consolidation will continue and drawdown of ASM's will continue throughout the entire industry. The employment picture in aviation is, and will continue to be, dismal for quite some time.

BTW, JMHO.

runninbeyotch

 

[Sinca3]

What was the average class size during the last wave of hiring at Delta?

The first few classes only had between 2-12 after that they avg'd 30 per class wth a new class starting every 2 weeks.

 

[hockeypilot44]

One minute there, Senor.........

The Mid-Atlantic pilots (who were previously mainline before they were furloughed) were considered "Furloughed" - which is what triggered your ability to fly at Mid-Atlantic. The reason they were stapled to the bottom of the arbitrated list was that they did NOT bring an active mainline job to the merger.

{{ running for cover }}

:smash:

Mid-Atlantic wasn't even an airline. The aircraft were all on the Usair operating certificate. This is the gyst for the difference of opinion between the East and West.

 

[johnsonrod]

It would be better to have this conversation sometime in 2015.

Once sufficient distance is achieved from the close date of the merger, Delta will draw down significantly and there will be furloughs. Once people start retiring again in 2012, it will take several years to get through all the recalls.

I hate to crap on anyone's hope, but consolidation will continue and drawdown of ASM's will continue throughout the entire industry. The employment picture in aviation is, and will continue to be, dismal for quite some time.

BTW, JMHO.

runninbeyotch

What you don't take into account is the eventual rise in domestic traffic here in the US. I read reports stating 1 billion passengers will be carried domestically each year by the year 2011. This recession may be short lived, and that will probably ring true. If that is the case, RJs will not rule the skies, and legacy carriers will not compete with growing LCCs with those RJs. Add retirements (not everyone will leave at age 65), and hiring will pick up for the legacies. Hopefully that will be my ticket to a better life than my current one.

 

[flyboyike]

It would be better to have this conversation sometime in 2015.

Once sufficient distance is achieved from the close date of the merger, Delta will draw down significantly and there will be furloughs. Once people start retiring again in 2012, it will take several years to get through all the recalls.

I hate to crap on anyone's hope, but consolidation will continue and drawdown of ASM's will continue throughout the entire industry. The employment picture in aviation is, and will continue to be, dismal for quite some time.

BTW, JMHO.

runninbeyotch

I agree, even if that means my own prospects are especially bleak. Which they are.

 

[rumrunner300]

What you don't take into account is the eventual rise in domestic traffic here in the US. I read reports stating 1 billion passengers will be carried domestically each year by the year 2011. This recession may be short lived, and that will probably ring true. If that is the case, RJs will not rule the skies, and legacy carriers will not compete with growing LCCs with those RJs. Add retirements (not everyone will leave at age 65), and hiring will pick up for the legacies. Hopefully that will be my ticket to a better life than my current one.

I hope you are right.

 

[rumrunner300]

I agree, even if that means my own prospects are especially bleak. Which they are.

Sometimes hope is the most crippling emotion to have. Nothing has felt better than finally letting this mess go.

I've decided to go back to school and obtain a degree that is actually usable (damn UND "Aeronautical Science" crap) and try to build something resembling a stable life. If I have to decide in or out in 10 years, I'll drive off that bridge when I come to it.

Good luck to all.

 

[crj567]

It would be better to have this conversation sometime in 2015.

Once sufficient distance is achieved from the close date of the merger, Delta will draw down significantly and there will be furloughs. Once people start retiring again in 2012, it will take several years to get through all the recalls.

I hate to crap on anyone's hope, but consolidation will continue and drawdown of ASM's will continue throughout the entire industry. The employment picture in aviation is, and will continue to be, dismal for quite some time.

BTW, JMHO.

runninbeyotch

You are absoltely correct. I would be very nervous at Compass these days.

 

[General Lee]

You are absoltely correct. I would be very nervous at Compass these days.

Compared with ASA? Are you kidding me? Listen McRonald, you need to get your facts straight. The Compass guys have a spot at Delta EVENTUALLY, and you EVENTUALLY have to get off your arse and clean the stalls. And I saw you sneak a ranch sauce dip packet.....don't you dip urinal cakes in those again!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

The Compass guys have a spot at Delta EVENTUALLY...

Even if that's true, how do you expect them to eat prior to said eventuality? Or will their faith in a brighter future with Mother Delta carry them through? And before you say it, I know they knew what they were signing up for, but it still sucks.