Delta flight diverts on champagne request

[labbats]

I always love how a 5 year FA feels superior to a regional pilot. The pilot had to pass multiple tests and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get his/her job... you had to show up to a job fair. Hey, if that pilot had decided to become a FA instead of a pilot then they'd be senior to you.

Being a Flight Attendant can be a thankless job. That's a shame. However, it shouldn't be a career. What advantage is there to a 10 year FA over a 3 year FA?

I enjoy most Flight Attendants I work with. If I had to guess I'd put the number at 90%. But to reiterate my first point the 90% wouldn't create a downward spiral of negativity that ended in a shouting match. More often than not the verbally abusive 10% are the ones asking for someone to be removed.

I'm sure you're in the 90% range and are just defending your own. Just realize that if one of us waded into a Flight Attendant forum we'd be playing defensive too.

 

[waveflyer]

True, but didn't the Japanese guy plead guilty? And, what exactly was it HIS business that the FA was talking to the passenger BEHIND him? Article said he had 4 drinks, PLUS champagne. Alcohol is at the root of much of passenger bad behavior, just like at sporting events. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet most of us didn't sign on to be a FA to be a bouncer and be abused and physically assaulted by drunks. This is a big reason why I'd be hard-pressed to go back to working with "regular" pax again. I love me my charter pax!

No argument with that- I think most of us are reacting off the first diverted flight that wasn't physical and guessing that one might have been averted with a better FA. But it's an ignorant guess at best, and that's part of the frustration- we often feel obligated to have our FAs back- but many aren't using great judgement when they ask that of us- only to find out later we backed our crew, but they were wrong. That gets frustrating when we're stuck behind the door and can't assess anything for ourselves.

 

[shon7]

...Asian PASSENGERS know how to behave. You really can't compare airlines that are from countries that have very different cultural norms and values. Again, it's more of a "I like foreign airlines because they don't have FAs who are ollllddd and unpleasant to ogle."

So basically Asian carriers are doing well cause they have passengers who "know how to behave." I wonder why you aren't running your own airline. With a mind that is able to provide logic like that you could be making millions.

 

[B727FA]

I think you make excuses for your peers, zone. Most of us fly all over the world and have a whole lot of experience on many airlines. We aren't ignorant.

I think, Wave, Zone's point is, we're not either. And here, and elsewhere, the assumption usually is, "It's the FA's fault b/c they're argumentative, old, lazy, hate management, hate women/men, hate pilots, hate pax, fat, PMSing, fill-in-the-blank."

Bottom line, none of us were on either plane- and all are making gross generalizations

But yet, it was the FA's fault! That was the first reaction!

It reminds me of the cartoon that showed in the first frame dated "Past" the boy in the class room with the parents and teacher. The adults are looking at "Tommy" (who's looking nervous) and saying, "We're to discuss Tommy's behavior." The second frame is dated "Today" we see the parents with Tommy (who's looking smug) and looking at the teacher and saying, "We're here to discuss Tommy's behavior."

The person with the "authority" (I hesitate to use that term for the back-lash I'll receive) is now the bad guy. The teacher is failing Tommy. The FA is "out of control." The cops are abusing everyone. And so on...

When I was a union rep I'd always tell my members, "Comply, then complain. We can always address it when we're in the right bringing the complaint forward; it's a lot easier than having to defend your possible insubordination."

Grieve it; don't gripe.

 

[B727FA]

I always love how a 5 year FA feels superior to a regional pilot. The pilot had to pass multiple tests and pay tens of thousands of dollars to get his/her job...

I always love how a pilot feels superior to an FA period.

So you bought your job/quals. EVERYONE pays their dues one way or another. Why do pilots seem to feel they're the only one who "pays" to get where they are (and that makes them better?)?

Regardless if you go to college, military, flight school, massage school, prison, fast food or retail, we ALL have done something that makes us uniquely qualified to be hired and do our jobs. There are jobs where a peg can fit a hole, and as much as pilots love to insist, Inflight is one of them, it's not. Simply because a pilot says, "It never should have been a career and a trained monkey could do your job" doesn't make it true.

 

[B727FA]

...I think most of us are reacting off the first diverted flight that wasn't physical and guessing that one might have been averted with a better FA. But it's an ignorant guess at best,

Thank you for the continued acknowledgement that all the arm-chair crewing going on here is guess work. With that said, there were at least TWO other FA's on the a/c. We don't know if they talked to them. We don't know if they all concurred. We just don't know. I'll take down a haughty FA any day--they make me look bad. But I'm not going to immediately assume that a "better" FA could have averted this just b/c the prevailing winds are to "blame the FA."

and that's part of the frustration- we often feel obligated to have our FAs back- but many aren't using great judgement when they ask that of us- only to find out later we backed our crew, but they were wrong. That gets frustrating when we're stuck behind the door and can't assess anything for ourselves.

Let's be VERY clear here: the CA made the decision to land. NOT the FA. Those decisions are made at a far higher paygrade than ours. And at DL the CA has a minimum of 5 groups of resources at his/her disposal by which to make a decision. We need to realize FA's are REALLY not that powerful. All we can do is convey the situation (for better or worse) and respond to the CA's direction. Why hasn't anyone questioned the CA's decision?

 

[skidbuggy]

.... We need to realize FA's are REALLY not that powerful.

So do they.

 

[B727FA]

For ref: it was a 757 with a crew of 4. The seniority of the crew (I'm not going to post here for their privacy) indicates to me this wasn't a case of rogue "crews gone wild."

 

[B727FA]

So do they.

Oh for God's sake...enough!:nuts:

 

[zonejumper]

Oh for God's sake...enough!:nuts:

Thank you, fellow FA. It's extremely frustrating to have the same response to all threads about a FA/passenger issue. It's ALWAYS the FAs fault--and it's ALWAYS assumed it's a cat-rancher. Hmmm, I guess I didn't realize that older women are bitter hags and the young ones all possess sunny dispositions.
If some of these "men" want to be honest, they should just say they think anyone over 35 should retire and only allow young, hot FAs... Yeah, that would sure solve all FA/pax issues. uke:

 

[outerlimits]

Thank you, fellow FA. It's extremely frustrating to have the same response to all threads about a FA/passenger issue. It's ALWAYS the FAs fault--and it's ALWAYS assumed it's a cat-rancher. Hmmm, I guess I didn't realize that older women are bitter hags and the young ones all possess sunny dispositions.
If some of these "men" want to be honest, they should just say they think anyone over 35 should retire and only allow young, hot FAs... Yeah, that would sure solve all FA/pax issues. uke:

Easy does it, I have 2 cats

 

[tomgoodman]

An old Captain once remarked: "I could do a F/A's job....for about 20 minutes. Then either I or a passenger would get slapped."

 

[Fubijaakr]

The undercurrent I detect here, ZJ and 727, is pretty typical for the average FI poster. You'll note they are mostly young guys. The opinion is the same whether its a passenger out of control or an Age 65 thread.

Have you noticed its always "gummer" or "cat rancher"? They all seem to be Capt. Taylors complaining about the "gays, grannies and grandes." Their idea of a "professional" F/A is a 20 something with perky breasts who they might "get lucky" with on the layover.

However, with their demonstrated attitudes, luck (or liquor) is the only thing that's going to help them.

 

[outerlimits]

The undercurrent I detect here, ZJ and 727, is pretty typical for the average FI poster. You'll note they are mostly young guys. The opinion is the same whether its a passenger out of control or an Age 65 thread.

Have you noticed its always "gummer" or "cat rancher"? They all seem to be Capt. Taylors complaining about the "gays, grannies and grandes." Their idea of a "professional" F/A is a 20 something with perky breasts who they might "get lucky" with on the layover.

However, with their demonstrated attitudes, luck (or liquor) is the only thing that's going to help them.

Luck is good but liquor is quicker

 

[Turtle21]

Cabin crew in the US are out of control these days, trumping their perceived authority over simple customer service, especially in first class. I was on a UA flight to DXB and was shocked at the lack of service in biz class. After a horrendous meal service, the cat rachers were never seen again for the rest of the flight. Do that on an Asian or ME carrier and you will be fired.

The Asian culture is different than the U.S. culture. How many asian men walk around with their pants halfway down to their knees? How many asian women cackle and snap their fingers at you to show their displeasure?

Just last week I watched a first class passenger and his wife stand in the way while disabled passengers were being allowed to board first. The gate agent politely asked/directed the first class passenger to please step aside for a few minutes to allow the disabled passengers in wheel chairs to board. The first class passenger just nodded and didn't move out of the way, and then bolted to the airplane as soon as the gate agent turned to help someone in a wheel chair.

The week before that I saw a passenger revolt about having to check her bag. She ripped off the bag tag, opened the jetway door to the stairs, and threw the tag out onto the ramp and then stormed onto the plane with her bag.

Passengers are told to expect more and then get less every year, and the companies consistently deliver.

I am aghast at the insults and arrogance that gate agents and FAs have to ignore everyday (from the companies and passengers) and I am amazed that so many of them do such an amazing job day in and day out.

 

[waveflyer]

Only a gummer would call us " young", Fubi

 

[LearLove]

ON a sked deadhead last month I watched a middle eastern man stick his wife in coach then go and sit in first.

 

[shon7]

The Asian culture is different than the U.S...the week before that I saw a passenger revolt about having to check their bag. ..I am aghast at the insults and arrogance that gate agents and FAs have to ignore everyday (from the companies and passengers) and I am amazed that so many of them do such an amazing job day in and day out.

So you think passengers are the problem! Think for a moment where you paycheck comes from. An FAs ideal world would be an airline with with no passengers - right! The airline is not a social welfare scheme. Earn your pay like everyone else. You're not doing anyone a favor. And if its so bad then leave. You'd make much more in most industries elsewhere - but you'd have to work for it and you'd never get away with the poor, offensive work ethic that FAs bring in to work day after day.

 

[waveflyer]

An old Captain once remarked: "I could do a F/A's job....for about 20 minutes. Then either I or a passenger would get slapped."

Shoe fits for me definitely(!) I wouldn't last a week.

But let's stop pretending there is no difference between good FAs and bad ones. All are not equal, and it has been apparent to most for some time that bad attitude FAs are on the rise. I blame mgmt ultimately, but there are a lot of union protected free loaders who really don't enjoy their job on any level, but continue to do it for their own motivations-

 

[FR8mastr]

As the Captain there is not much you can do... You cant go back and see what's going on, therefore there is no chance for the front office to even try to diffuse the issue.

So What's left?

You either trust your fellow crew member or not.

If I am told by an FA that there is some sort of situation in back that demands a divert, that is most likely what's going to happen.

Again, see the first paragraph... What else can you do, especially knowing if the situation does get worse you will be over open water soon.