Delta Connection Academy...THOUGHTS????

[Sctt@NJA]

Goose Egg, Bridgewater State and Daniel Webster?


Just a wild guess- but I spent about the same for my degree and ratings at Bridgewater State, MA. These threads about the expensive schools make me feel VERY happy about that path I took!

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Are you DCA fellas allowed to do touch and gos in complex aircraft yet? Haven't seen any pictures of gear-ups lately...

 

[thorrr]

Comments on DCA

I'm presently attending DCA. I've earned at least my private there, and am still enrolled in the program.
First, as mentioned, DCA offers outstanding preparation for the airlines; you will learn far more than a 61 school (I attended one until about 12 hours) and the quality of the instructors, in general, is also superb.
The aircraft suck. straight up, the school would be far better off getting equipment that actually works.
With the private syllabus you will be using Cessna 152s... all are at least 30 years old, and every fourth or fifth flight will have to be incompleted due to maintenance problems. When problems are written up on an aircraft, by my experience, its a toss of the dice as to whether they will do anything about it. I wrote up one airplane for the same problem three times in two days.
The school chages more per hour for these aircraft than Avion, next door, charges for its BRAND NEW cessna 172RG equipped with GPS and all decked out. I am not aware of FSI or ERAUs cost, so i cannot compare to them.
The school charges 60 dollars an hour for any time you spend with your instructor; the instructor gets ten of that. the school pockets the remaining 50.
Ground school costs 60 an hour PER STUDENT. With twelve students in a classroom, thats 720$ PER HOUR the school is making. The groundschool instructor earns ten of that seven hundred. The school pockets the rest.
I am unaware of where that money goes. the learning aids are mostly broken and resemble something found buried deep in the recesses of a ghetto public high-school's basement. The demonstration E6B in our classroom was broken and unuseable for classroom demonstrations; a student had to hold the plate in place while the instructor tried to spin it without dropping it. Their model airplanes used for demonstrating flight principles are basically dollar-store foam toys held together with masking tape. The VHS tapes in the Learning Resource Center are a Joke, the tracking is so far off on them that the TVs are unable to account for it... the pictures skip and jump so much as to be completely useless for instructional purposes, but we are still required to watch them. Most students have given up trying to watch them, and simply sit in front of their TVs reading the Gleim... a practice actually recommended by several instructors.
Required in the school's syllabus is several hours of time on their PCATDs. This is essentially a 386 computer with MSFS 1994 on it and a yoke/simulated radio stack attached. You will see them in the tour. The school charges over a hundred dollars an HOUR to use these.
I will concede that the PCs are somewhat useful for flight training, however, definitely NOT worth $100+ an hour. Maybe ten. The same equipment can be purchased for a home computer for under 1500 dollars. You HAVE to spend over fifteen hours on them for the training. It would make more sense for each student to simply buy his/her own.
The "simulator" time costs only ten dollars less than aircraft time.
The instructors are incredible. Intelligent, well-taught, and proficient, i am convinced that the school DOES hire top-notch pilots as instructors. They are all friendly and have a genuine love for aviation.
I wonder what would happen if the school happened to hire an instructor with enough initiative to start a workers Union. The school stresses that it simulates an airline environment. . . ;-)
There are definitely people i would reccomend this school to... i recommend taking advantage of the free tour and checking it out for yourself. Ask to see the inside of the aircraft. Ask questions. If it sounds like the admissions guy is dodging a question, keep digging. Find out all you can to see if this school is right for you.

 

[SloDoDriver]

Wow a lot of negs on the ol' academy. I hear the same thing about UNDers and Riddlers. If I could have got into the right seat at age 21 like one of my former students I would have been all over it. I would never blame anyone for doin the Com Academy thing. I just would hate paying back those student loans making 20k a year for awhile.

 

[bobbysamd]

CAA (DCA) Review

Good review from thorrr, above. I would bet that the "152" that I flew during my interview in 1991 is among the ones he mentioned - and is probably original equipment from when the school was Airline Aviation Academy.

One thing missing from thorrr's review though. How does the school treat students and instructors?

 

[de727ups]

"you will learn far more than a 61 school"

I think it's interesting you make this statement and then proceed to totally trash the DCA's ground training. There is nothing in part 61 that holds you back from learning whatever you want to. 61 is less structured, so if you wanna learn, you gotta do it on your own. I think 61 with a good CFI, a good airplane, and a student who is motivated, is equal to a 141 school. With 61, no doubt if you have a min standards instructor and you put in a min standards effort, you are gonna get less out of it than 141, which forces you to do more formal work.

"I wonder what would happen if the school happened to hire an instructor with enough initiative to start a workers Union. The school stresses that it simulates an airline environment. . . ;-)"

Sounds like a good idea. They did it at Riddle. Not sure how much it helped but it least they are getting a good indoc into the airline environment you mention.

 

[thorrr]

There is nothing in part 61 that holds you back from learning whatever you want to. 61 is less structured, so if you wanna learn, you gotta do it on your own. I think 61 with a good CFI, a good airplane, and a student who is motivated, is equal to a 141 school. With 61, no doubt if you have a min standards instructor and you put in a min standards effort, you are gonna get less out of it than 141, which forces you to do more formal work.

good point. THe ground training is excellent, but the learning Aids Suck. and it costs too much...

I was wrong to classify all 61 schools into one category. I meant only to compare it with the 61 school I went to. The instructors there came across as more backyard aviators. When i asked WHY they did certain things, more than half the time i would get the response "I dont know, thats just what I was taught." I have yet to hear that statement at DCA.

I will certainly grant that there are hundreds of outstanding 61 schools where the quality of education far surpasses that found at DCA. I meant only to compare it to the one school I had personal experience with.

 

[thorrr]

Oops forgot a question!

One thing missing from thorrr's review though. How does the school treat students and instructors?

hmmm... Okay. we make fun of the admissions guys for only talking to us when they're leading a tour ;-) Those people are SUPER friendly, but only when they're heading a tour group.

The rest of the staff, for the most part, is incredibly helpful and friendly. This is a definite positive aspect of the school I failed to mention during my original review. I could give examples, if requested, but i think my original eight paragraph post wore me out...

The instructors, from what I understand, are treated like slaves. When I ask them, they tell me point blank that they will lose their Jobs and "guaranteed interview" if they say anything negative about the school. this makes it quite hard for me to get an honest answer. I DO plan on going all-the-way through the academy right now, and will be more than happy to report back as an instructor.

please no flaming on my desicion to stay at the academy. As I said, there ARE people I'd recommend it to; the guaranteed interview WORKS. Ask any instructor at the school: their former instructor is now working for an airline.

 

[bobbysamd]

Comair

hmmm... Okay. we make fun of the admissions guys for only talking to us when they're leading a tour ;-) Those people are SUPER friendly, but only when they're heading a tour group.

The rest of the staff, for the most part, is incredibly helpful and friendly . . . .

Very interesting . . . . but, just for fun, if you haven't already, read this link about my experiences with the helpful and "friendly" CAA staff.

The instructors, from what I understand, are treated like slaves. When I ask them, they tell me point blank that they will lose their Jobs and "guaranteed interview" if they say anything negative about the school . . . .

No doubt about that, based on the oppressive atmosphere I encountered at Comair.

Good luck with the rest of your stay at Comair.

 

[thorrr]

Thanks...

Yep.. I read the post. Comair/DCA doesnt roll out any red carpets, thats for sure, unless you're planning on giving THEM money. Don't blame them for not sending you a letter; they were probably trying to save money on paper and stamps... and of course they pass those savings right on to us! (sarchasm)

 

[NuGuy]

The school chages more per hour for these aircraft than Avion, next door, charges for its BRAND NEW cessna 172RG equipped with GPS and all decked out. I am not aware of FSI or ERAUs cost, so i cannot compare to them.

Ummm, I doubt this, since the last new 172RG rolled off a Cessna line around 1984 or so. New 172s, maybe, but not RGs. Details count...

Nu

 

[thorrr]

Ummm, I doubt this, since the last new 172RG rolled off a Cessna line around 1984 or so. New 172s, maybe, but not RGs. Details count...

Nu

...thanks... will look into it. the prices of the RG I verified in person, but i have not actually seen the aircraft; descriptions come from friends in my groundschool class. I'll check tomorrow.. thanks!

EDITED/ADDED TEN MINUTES LATER
---------------------------------------------------
Okay.. I just got laughed at. They have a 172R in addition to an RG. I believe its the R I was refering to. RG=Retractable gear? I didnt make that connection til my friend explained it.
anyway. . . The RG rents for more than the R and thus I assumed it was the newer model. Go figure.
Again, this information is not directly from Avion... I'll verify it tomorrow. Thanks for pointing that out. ya learn something new every day!

 

[thorrr]

. . . Avion Doesnt have any RGs... it was SPs I was thinking about. They have 172 Rs and 172s also. . . the majority have GPS installed. And All are less expensive per hour than a 152 at DCA. Thanks. and sorry about the lack of detail ;-) Ill pay more attention next time...

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Avion had an RG and a 172N with a G430, but they were lost when rented to DCA students and instructors.

 

[jaxpilot]

I wish I would have been informed prior to going to DCA. I was in the DCA program at Jacksonville University. Did my Private, Instrument, Comm ASEL at DCA. Now I am pulling my head out of my ass and I am getting out, just signed up to get my multi and CFI tickets at ATP (for much cheaper, and faster) and will probably attend a state school back home on academic scholarship (The offer was there out of high school, but I was an idiot and believed DCA/JU was only way to airlines- I wasnt informed.....). If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to ATP from the start and went to a state school for a degree other than aviation. Right now I have about 55 credits at JU, but most of those will be worth nothing because the aviation credits wont transfer. Oh well, you live and you learn....

 

[standaman]

I wish I would have been informed prior to going to DCA. I was in the DCA program at Jacksonville University. Did my Private, Instrument, Comm ASEL at DCA. Now I am pulling my head out of my ass and I am getting out, just signed up to get my multi and CFI tickets at ATP (for much cheaper, and faster) and will probably attend a state school back home on academic scholarship (The offer was there out of high school, but I was an idiot and believed DCA/JU was only way to airlines- I wasnt informed.....). If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to ATP from the start and went to a state school for a degree other than aviation. Right now I have about 55 credits at JU, but most of those will be worth nothing because the aviation credits wont transfer. Oh well, you live and you learn....

I'm trying to figure out who you are. Line person at Craig Air Center??? I think I might know but not sure. Maybe you can figure out who I am? Sorry to hear it didn't work out. Keep the faith. ATP is bound to work out just keep flying.

 

[skydesk]

Good Research = Good Results

Do 6 months of research on all schools part 61 or 91. Go visit all of them. See what they offer you, see what potential there is to get a job, post school. Find out by talking to instructors and students who are attending. The prices that I found are closely equivilent. I visited from west to east, Sierra, Spartan, Embry Riddle, PanAm, U of North Dakota, ATA, Flight Safety and Delta Conection, including numerous part 61 type schools.
I simply wanted my money to go the farthest based on my goals, 1. I wanted to be a CFI in order to gain experiece and keep the prices down, 2. I want a cushion for industry failures like 9/11, every instructor I've seen at DCA that got their 1000 hours (about 250, got jobs if they wanted to, some failed interviews, but this school just sets more up for you and they got jobs)
3. I wanted a rigorous program, I wanted challenge, I didn't want to just 'pay' for my ratings without merit like many other schools selling points. I've never seen such standards and hard workers in my life than this place.
If you come here, focus follows attitude. Don't distract, stay the course and you will come out the otherside. Tons of new connections comming up too, 777 simulator time at Delta in Atl, a contract with another airline, etc.
Good Researching

 

[bobbysamd]

Rigor and challenge

I wanted a rigorous program, I wanted challenge, I didn't want to just 'pay' for my ratings without merit like many other schools selling points. I've never seen such standards and hard workers in my life than this place.
If you come here, focus follows attitude. Don't distract, stay the course and you will come out the otherside.

Never mind the oppressive DCA environment and politcking, which subverts straightforward hard work and fair treatment. I had a glimpse of DCA's culture during my interview and did not care for it.

It cannot be said that DCA has cornered the market on rigor and challenge. I worked at three 141 flight schools. By its very nature, 141 is rigorous and challenging. Compared to unstructured Part 61, part 141 TCOs ordinarily have just a few lessons and limited reps, which means students must be prepared for each flight and instructors will push them hard to learn. Granted, 141 schools tend to be political and competitive because of the goals at the end, usually to be hired by the school to instruct. But that does not mean that free license inures to management and chief pilots to oppress students and instructors.

Hope DCA works out for you.

 

[jaxpilot]

Standaman

hey Standaman, are you Scott Stanley? I looked at my post and realized it was kind of harsh on DCA. I was just frustrated that day I guess. I value the training I got there but I wish I would have done some research, talked to some students on the costs they incurred. The cost is the only thing I did not like. When I got the estimation, it was $45,000 for private through MEI. When I got done with my private and had talked to other students, I realized that cost was impossible to maintain, but I continued to pull through till I got my Commercial, and now I cannot not afford it after 3 semesters at JU. Rob Clarke says they are working to come up with new figures for the average student cost, which is a good thing. Now I cannot get any loans because of all the loans I took out to while there, to do "review flights", etc etc. I am still on great terms with everyone there and I still work at the Air Center. I know the program works (If you can afford it) because of all the instructors I see leaving for the airlines. My DCA training from private thru commercial will serve as a good foundation for me as I get my advanced training at ATP, my multi class date is Jan. 2, CFI Program class date is Jan. 17. I should be an MEI, CFI, CFII by Jan. 30. Kinda scary isnt it since you probably remember me as a lowly instrument student in your ground school. TTYL

 

[skydesk]

Cruise Check - Dis sled be horizontal tro me da 411

There's always a few people who cannot cope with hard work, perseverance and involvement. There was a guy here, going through the program who's dad was a Delta pilot, was rich and was a decent pilot. Once he got on-line, he sputtered, always talking about how he could go somewhere else and he could do this-and-that but in reality, he just didn't cut it, in exchange he went back to his old run-of-the-mill job. Friends of his, including myself, always thought, quit your whining, in 10 months of teaching you'll be interviewing with the regionals. I can tell you summarilly that if you are one of these kind of guys expect the same as above.
The truth is that 141 programs are very different. The large, multi-million dollar schools have to worry about tighter FSDO standards, college accreditation, stricter ground schools and stringent 141 requirements. I once attended a 141 school where non-"rigorous" Jeppesen lessons were the only thing they had; this is common across the United States. At these places it is not uncommon to finish your private pilot license in a year, Ibid for your instrument and so on.
Oppressive environment, as aforementioned by the Denver Broncos guy, you mean pressure environment don't you? Your past experience is not what it is today. People are instructing for 10 months and then flying a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** CRJ, it's crazy good. I have a feeling that you are more like the Delta brat who has lots of bitches but no solutions especially here on a solitary, Saturday morning? I hope not but, why else hang out around this thread all the time?
The best experience is found by the one who does the best research. Go test it out, set up your table that things will be weighed against. Change the aviation world around, look at stability, talk to instructors, students and administrators, look at time tables, how about money? Good Luck All.