Delta CEO Welcome video

[Full of LUV]

Wait, so what does this have to do with the customer service numbers? You don't actually pay attention to any of this do you? It's OK to admit it, these numbers are something that are tossed around at this level all the time and it's a way to measure ourselves against each other. 2 years of being a part of this delta system now and I'm still shocked how low their numbers are every time I look at them. Numbers alone, Skywest should be running their own airline, but [insert Indy air joke here].

No I don't look at customer service numbers for regionals, they are meaningless. Subcontractors don't provide customer service, they provide contracted lift to Delta customers. They have operational metrics that may be useful in deciding which contractors performance is standard and substandard(ie tardiness, mishandled bags, reliability, etc), but a customer only knows they bought a ticket through Delta and they expect Delta to ensure their satisfaction.

Also, every regional thinks they can run their own airline, Indy air, Expressjet, RAH/Frontier-yet none have been successful in bridging the gulf from subcontractor to Brand name airline. Skywest is obviously been run by some smart guys, I'm sure if it was as easy to go independent as you think, they'd have done it. There is more to running an airline than just good customer service.

Oh I don't work for Skywest/ASA/XJET, my worthless regional is farther down to the right. The companies could very easily be around 30 years from now if mainline pilots cave on scope. Right now their pension plan is as good as yours for your reference . Will Delta even be around? Or will they be bought and move forward as "New Company name here"?

I don't know who will be around in 30 years, that is why I'm actually more comfortable with a 401K with 15% salary contribution by company for me to own outright despite the demise of any one company. I hope the regional pilots get the same or more, the better pay regionals get, the less pressure there is on mgmt to find a way around mainline scope to get to the contractors.

*yawn* Logically it would stand to reason that on a network as large as Delta it is possible to fly often and never see skywest or ASA or whoever. Even though the metrics that Delta uses to rate their airlines shows Skywest leading, that doesn't mean the product is satisfactory. It's satisfactory for Delta, but not for the customer in all cases.

If you want to vehemently defend Delta, that's fine. As far as the pension being too expensive you may want to look at bus drivers across the country, their pension plans, and rethink.

Bus drivers and all government workers eventually will have the pension reality imposed as the private sector has done now. As workers age and it takes more and more money to set up their pensions, companies have balked. Govt pensions are taking longer because govt doesn't pay as they go, they just promise future tax payers will pick up the unfunded tab. Corporations have taken the pension hits now, public pensions are by no means an absolute going forward. Someday the taxpayers will say, wait none of us have a pension, why does the bus driver make $75K in retirement?

I want Delta and every mainline company to come restore their pre 9-11 bankruptcy. I have no plans to be at my regional for life (unless you sell out scope THAT fast, and that's tough even for a Delta pilot), I will move on as many others will too. It would be helpful for everyone, all pilots, if mainline spent more time looking at their own problems at their contract (including GIANT issues like scope and pay) rather than kicking the regional pilot around like their dog at home.

I want too, and I never kick my dog. Like I said in the other post, I feel for the regional pilot, the whole profession has been stagnant for a decade due to BK's, age 65, and scope erosion. It hasn't been a pick nick for anyone except the guys who turned 59 back in 2007.

Me, my co workers, the people coming behind me, we're all heading to mainline at some point. Maybe not Delta but something. We're all in this together whether you like it or not (obviously you don't), so cheer up and shut up.

Don't know where you got the impression that I don't want regional pilots in major airlines. You've actually read me all wrong, I'm more cheery than a high school cheerleader, and when your my copilot some day, we'll get along just fine as long as you don't tell me to shut up.

All this discussion as I commented that I thought Richard's video was actually much more sincere than Tilton's.
LUV

 

[PCL_128]

Well, there's two kinds of pensions. I agree with you about A-Plan pensions, because that money isn't safe in bankruptcy. But B-Plan pensions, like we used to have at AirTran, are safe in bankruptcy just like 401k plans. The difference is that the employee doesn't have to contribute a dime to get the company contribution. That's far superior to a 401k.

 

[JustaNumber]

The new DAL / UAL / and post AA BK contracts will be the best indicator of the profession for the next decade.

I somewhat agree, but I think the Pinnacle BK situation, believe it or not, will be much more of an indicator of the future of the industry. The mainline contracts are probing the upper limits of what is possible for pilot pay, but the unilaterally imposed lower limits of pay that could be seen at Pinnacle will have more of an impact on where the pilot profession is heading. The big question is, will the industry absorb (and propagate) ever lower wages, or are we near the bottom of what the hiring pool will accept? With today's unemployment levels, unfortunately I think we're headed lower.

 

[HalinTexas]

Ironic that a Delta pilot is complaining about scope. You had your chance in 1996. You were the first.

 

[PCL_128]

I somewhat agree, but I think the Pinnacle BK situation, believe it or not, will be much more of an indicator of the future of the industry. The mainline contracts are probing the upper limits of what is possible for pilot pay, but the unilaterally imposed lower limits of pay that could be seen at Pinnacle will have more of an impact on where the pilot profession is heading. The big question is, will the industry absorb (and propagate) ever lower wages, or are we near the bottom of what the hiring pool will accept? With today's unemployment levels, unfortunately I think we're headed lower.

I doubt it can really go lower now that the new FO minimums will be in place next year. Finding someone with 1,500 hours and an ATP who is willing to work for $15k a year won't be easy.

 

[doh]

PCL, I hope you're right.

 

[Flyer1015]

I doubt it can really go lower now that the new FO minimums will be in place next year. Finding someone with 1,500 hours and an ATP who is willing to work for $15k a year won't be easy.

Exactly, and the regionals will not be able to pay an entry level wage high enough to attract ATP-rated pilots. They will have to get some kind of exemption that allows credit towards the 1500 hours. Lets face it, even the majors start you at first year pay of $28k-$40k, because they can get away with it. I can't see regionals starting their entry level pay at $35k to $40k.

The problem today is since 9/11, the regionals have stagnated and there are a lot more lifers. Add in new contracts from 2004-2011, and you have RJ Captains making well over $100k to $125k, putting them right at mainline pay (some US Air Bus captains make the same as a senior RJ checkairman who flies 90 hrs a month). The cost advantage has disappeared due to the new labor structure, with legacies and majors in post-9/11 recession contracts, and the regionals in a booming contract. With the cost advantage gone, and with oil over 110/barrel, the whole regional model is in serious trouble.

 

[Scoot 11]

I doubt it can really go lower now that the new FO minimums will be in place next year. Finding someone with 1,500 hours and an ATP who is willing to work for $15k a year won't be easy.

Exactly. There goes the government getting involved with something they have ZERO clue about. In about 3 years, this is going to be very interesting to watch.

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly. There goes the government getting involved with something they have ZERO clue about. In about 3 years, this is going to be very interesting to watch.

Actually, this is a perfect example of why the government should get involved. The regionals never would have self-corrected. They would have just kept lowering the minimums over and over again until they bottomed out at 190 hours total time and a fresh Commercial certificate from a part 141 school, just to keep wages at rock bottom. The new regulation forces their hand.

 

[Scoot 11]

Actually, this is a perfect example of why the government should get involved. The regionals never would have self-corrected. They would have just kept lowering the minimums over and over again until they bottomed out at 190 hours total time and a fresh Commercial certificate from a part 141 school, just to keep wages at rock bottom. The new regulation forces their hand.

My apologies. I was confusing apples and oranges here. I was talking with a friend regarding the new FAR/rest rules at the same time I was reading your post. I agree above.