Delta asks employees to help pay for Fuel!

[Tomct]

Dizel8, Who Is That Chick? She IS HOT!!!!!!

 

[atrdriver]

I grew up around Northwest airlines. Can anyone (who is familiar) imagine the NW employee's EVER buying NW an airplane? I laugh just thinking about it. Goes to show you the differences in company culture.

I think most of the DAL employees laugh when they think about it now. Of course, then they get rid of the -200's Spirit will probably have to go too.

 

[Superpilot92]

Can any of you please donate to my fuel fund! I thank you in advance.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

A very good friend of mine's father worked at Delta for over 30 years (ground-side). Retired in the early 90's. He absolutely loved that company. From what I understand there was a real proud team atmosphere there.

I grew up around Northwest airlines. Can anyone (who is familiar) imagine the NW employee's EVER buying NW an airplane? I laugh just thinking about it. Goes to show you the differences in company culture.

That spirit has been beaten down by some interesting managers. Ron Allen with his 7 cent program and Leo Mullin with is off shore BK proof pension.

But it is still a friendlier place now, so I hear, than AA, NWA and Airtran. The company still treats the pilots with respect. But, IMHO, the senior pilots have squandered that respect. 2500 have left in the last 14 months, according to the General, and they have taken $2 Billion with them. This is after the big retirments in 2002 and 2003. The rest of the pilots, 6,000 or so, are paying the price for the 3,000 who have taken their money and run.

 

[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. . But, IMHO, the senior pilots have squandered that respect. 2500 have left in the last 14 months, according to the General, and they have taken $2 Billion with them. This is after the big retirments in 2002 and 2003. The rest of the pilots, 6,000 or so, are paying the price for the 3,000 who have taken their money and run.

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What would you have done if you were in their position? I understand where you're coming from, but good intentions and being a team player didn't help the United folks when it came to their pension.
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[FlyBoeingJets]

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What would you have done if you were in their position? I understand where you're coming from, but good intentions and being a team player didn't help the United folks when it came to their pension.
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Good question. Knowing the train is coming and being willing or able to stop it are two different things. Sure, UAL guys were screwed. But I don't think the DAL pilots deserved $1 million + lump sums at retirement either. There should be some sort of middle ground. I know some very junior Delta guys that hate it now that they are on the hook to fly ALL THE TIME under PBS. Some are finding other lines of work and will never come back. AA guys are also not happy.

Be careful what you FedEx and UPS folks ask for during negotiations. Long term, defined benefits regardless of profitability seem to be very dangerous things.

 

[Dizel8]

Well, at least some of the guys who took the lump sum are flying as "contractors", that should count for something! (Sarcasm)

As for those that took the money and ran ,personally, I cannot fault them! Corporations have very short memory when it comes to their employees, look at U and UAL. The employees kept giving, kept busting their behinds and yet, what did it get them?

 

[h25b]

For all of the "just raise ticket prices" fans...

How do you explain the fact that SWA can fly my wife and kids from RDU - BUF roundtrip for $298 (including taxes) and still make money. Wouldn't raising ticket prices at this point in the game just fuel more domestic growth at the LCC's ?

And don't think for one minute that the flying public should be willing to pay more just to keep Delta alive. You can't have it both ways, you are either for the free market economy or you aren't..

 

[Clipperskip]

Dear. Mr. FlyBoeingJets, I think the senior retiring DAL Captains have a moral responsibility to their families first and to their airline second. Those who decided to take a legal early retirement as a lump sum were justified in doing so. You are right, however, when you say that compromises, financial and otherwise, should be shared by all, but until the rules are changed that will not happen!

 

[Dizel8]

For all of the "just raise ticket prices" fans...

How do you explain the fact that SWA can fly my wife and kids from RDU - BUF roundtrip for $298 (including taxes) and still make money. Wouldn't raising ticket prices at this point in the game just fuel more domestic growth at the LCC's ?

$298 seems fair for that route, it is the $99 ticket that kills, when it is done by airlines losing buckets!

 

[michael707767]

Good question. Knowing the train is coming and being willing or able to stop it are two different things. Sure, UAL guys were screwed. But I don't think the DAL pilots deserved $1 million + lump sums at retirement either. There should be some sort of middle ground. I know some very junior Delta guys that hate it now that they are on the hook to fly ALL THE TIME under PBS.

why not? Our contract allows for these guys to retire. They earned it and they should get it. And frankly, its GOOD for us junior guys who remain. PBS is coming whether or not a ton of senior guys retire. Sure, life is going to suck, but it will suck a whole lot less now that we have all moved up 1500+ numbers. I also think enough guys have retired that we can avoid any refurloughing of pilots.

Oh and by the way, no one hates being on the hook to fly all the time under PBS. Hasn't happened yet. First real PBS bid will be in Oct for the Nov bid period. Has been ops normal up to now.

 

[michael707767]

How do you explain the fact that SWA can fly my wife and kids from RDU - BUF roundtrip for $298 (including taxes) and still make money. Wouldn't raising ticket prices at this point in the game just fuel more domestic growth at the LCC's ?

How do I explain it?? Fuel Hedges. Without them, even SW would be making very little if any money.

 

[Dizel8]

How do I explain it?? Fuel Hedges. Without them, even SW would be making very little if any money.

RDU-BUF is roughly 500NM, so figuring out the cost per seat to SWA is pretty easy. I think $130 each way should easily cover their cost, you agree?

(I subtracted taxes)

 

[h25b]

How do I explain it?? Fuel Hedges. Without them, even SW would be making very little if any money.

Everyone says that, and it is true... However, how is it the traveling public's fault that the "legacy" carriers are not in a financial situation to hedge ???

RDU-BUF is roughly 500NM, so figuring out the cost per seat to SWA is pretty easy. I think $130 each way should easily cover their cost, you agree?

(I subtracted taxes)

That was $298 for 2 roundtrip tickets... Including taxes..

 

[bafanguy]

But I don't think the DAL pilots deserved $1 million + lump sums at retirement either.

FBJ,

You don't appear to have a dog in this fight, but I'll try anyway to give you a point of view I doubt you'll understand. I can speak with a bit of authority on this issue being one of the evil 2500.

First, the lumps are not "deserved"...this ain't the freakin' Boy Scouts. This is part of life in the cold, cruel airline world. And as LEO said, "...a contract is a contract...". It was "negotiated", not deserved. We stand to lose the other 50% in the BK ( not guaranteed, but highly likely. Ask your USAir buddies ). Those who were in the last years of their careers didn't have enough years left to recover financially from whatever an inept management coupled with fate might hand them. At this point, the game is really being played for all the marbles. I suspect this is where you get lost in understanding as you don't appear to be in a position to live it, but you'll get your chance someday.

There are families to provide for and this can't be done with "warm & fuzzies"; Kroger won't give you a hunk of meat in exchange. There comes a point where you make decisions with the most important priorities in mind and perhaps regret that you couldn't act on behalf of some other priorities you also consider important.

This isn't the first time you have voiced your "opinion" on this. When you've stood where the evil 2500 have stood, looking at those realities, come back and speak on this issue again.




I know some very junior Delta guys that hate it now that they are on the hook to fly ALL THE TIME under PBS. .

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This is merely function of one's juniority and is part of airline life. PBS is also a negotiated function. It's better than the reserve of old when you were on the hook 24/7 of every day on call. There are a lot of guys on the list today who never knew anything but the sweet "windows" deal they had before PBS. Don't know what to tell 'em about that.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful, but sometimes it's impossible to see life through anyone else's eyes; knowing this should at least lead you to question your point of view.