Delta and SWA 717's a done deal?

[Daddy]

A little bird told me it's done. Any details?

 

[GIZMONC]

This has been a HOT topic over on a.net with over 200 replies but those are all comments about what DL does not much factual information. But once it is out it will spread like wild fire.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wait for an announcement, and even then wait for them to show up on the tarmac.......

I would not expect any announcement until contract talks are done.

 

[c9skytrain]

Word from two seperate sources the same day:

1: Senior Sim guy at AAI on jumpseat giving line check: Negotiations going well for the 717s until Airbus stepped in and told delta that what ever deal they work out with Boeing, we will one up it for some 319s. Last longer perform better, etc, etc.

2: JS home to ORF on a delta 320. The FO said he was told the exact same thing. I forget from whom. Wife, union, FA, CP, Starbucks coffee maker, etc, etc

 

[scoreboardII]

Aribus can't compete with this offer, planes basically free, training free, only cost will be engines.

 

[saabcaptain]

It's done, 717s are going to Delta.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Aribus can't compete with this offer, planes basically free, training free, only cost will be engines.

You mean Delta takes over the lease and payments for power by the hour on the engines? We don't own the 717's.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

You mean Delta takes over the lease and payments for power by the hour on the engines? We don't own the 717's.

Thats correct

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Hopefully it includes some 737 slots.

 

[outerlimits]

Hopefully it includes some 737 slots.

Hopefully the Airtran pilots will get to go over to DAL with what the Delta pilots where saying is fair.

 

[filejw]

Word from two seperate sources the same day:

1: Senior Sim guy at AAI on jumpseat giving line check: Negotiations going well for the 717s until Airbus stepped in and told delta that what ever deal they work out with Boeing, we will one up it for some 319s. Last longer perform better, etc, etc.

2: JS home to ORF on a delta 320. The FO said he was told the exact same thing. I forget from whom. Wife, union, FA, CP, Starbucks coffee maker, etc, etc

FYI Not Airbus but a group of leasing company's with 12 to 15 year old a/c.

 

[Lear70]

You mean Delta takes over the lease and payments for power by the hour on the engines? We don't own the 717's.

That's not a distinction our CBA makes.

While we don't "own" the aircraft, a sale of the leases directly to Delta would be enough to trigger our Section 1 Scope language; that's already been discussed. Doesn't matter if the 717 leases are paid for by cash or by other assets, including delivery slots that are owned by Delta.

Otherwise, Sec 1 Scope is triggered, and the pilots go with, subject to A/M integration, per the ALPA CBA, which is in full effect for the AirTran pilots and wasn't negated or superseded by the Southwest Seniority Integration Agreement and/or LOA.

The interesting "gotcha" in all this is "sublease", which is a word Gary Kelly has used recently in conjunction with the 717. If Southwest retains ownership of the leases and sub-leases the planes to Delta until the leases expire, the only language in the CBA is that they can't do something with the planes that causes furloughs. If they move each group of 717 pilots to the Southwest partition prior to the planes being sub-leased, and such sub-lease then does not create furloughs, then it appears the Scope language isn't triggered, as we technically never had a "Major Asset Sale".

Then 2017 comes up, they start going back to Boeing, or Delta purchases them for whatever is owed to Boeing or Delta negotiates their own lease terms but, either way, Southwest is out of it at that point, all the pilots are at Southwest, no one is furloughed, etc, etc.

It really depends what management WANTS to do, on both sides of the coin. If Delta and Southwest say so, Delta will get the pilots (and WHICH pilots would be an interesting bid to watch). If they don't, they won't. Either way it's way over the pay grade of just about everyone on this board, regardless of how people feel about it, so might as well not worry about it until it's announced. What will be, will be...

 

[filejw]

You can be pretty sure the a/c will be coming from Boeing Capital and not SWA. A/C returned to Boeing then leased to Delta as happen to Eastern and others.

 

[PCL_128]

You can be pretty sure the a/c will be coming from Boeing Capital and not SWA. A/C returned to Boeing then leased to Delta as happen to Eastern and others.

For the purpose of our scope language that Lear70 was talking about, it doesn't really matter. A multi-step transaction such as a return to the lessor and then going to Delta would still qualify.

 

[waveflyer]

PCL- would you want the choice?

 

[PCL_128]

PCL- would you want the choice?

Of course. Who doesn't like having options? But I don't think any of this is based in reality, anyway. It's just mental masturbation. If the 717s go away, I'm sure it will happen slowly, they'll be replaced by 737s as they go, and everyone will transition to SWA as planned. The idea of a mass transfer of airplanes in a short period of time isn't realistic.

 

[filejw]

For the purpose of our scope language that Lear70 was talking about, it doesn't really matter. A multi-step transaction such as a return to the lessor and then going to Delta would still qualify.

Well I think a maintenance union took something very similar to arbitration and lost. Once SWA no longer has control of the lease a third party can't be forced to do anything.The a/c would be at Boeing for refurbish and reconfiguration then go to DAL. If you knew how hard the powers that be resisted the flow ups from the regional you could understand why they may resist taking pilots.They for sure will not be taking any replacement a/c that would force them to be over in their headcount and have to layoff people already there.

 

[xray678]

They for sure will not be taking any replacement a/c that would force them to be over in their headcount and have to layoff people already there.

We have a winner. If Delta gets the 717, a portion of them would be to replace the remaining DC9s. There is no way Delta would take all the 717 pilots when it would mean they are overstaffed.

 

[airplane wizard]

We have a winner. If Delta gets the 717, a portion of them would be to replace the remaining DC9s. There is no way Delta would take all the 717 pilots when it would mean they are overstaffed.

Doesn't Delta have enough dc-9 pilots already? The type rating is the same, right?

 

[xray678]

Doesn't Delta have enough dc-9 pilots already? The type rating is the same, right?

The point is say Delta brings over all the 717s and a full compliment of 717 pilots. What do they do with the DC9 pilots when they retire the DC9 in favor of the 717?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Word from two seperate sources the same day:

1: Senior Sim guy at AAI on jumpseat giving line check: Negotiations going well for the 717s until Airbus stepped in and told delta that what ever deal they work out with Boeing, we will one up it for some 319s. Last longer perform better, etc, etc.

2: JS home to ORF on a delta 320. The FO said he was told the exact same thing. I forget from whom. Wife, union, FA, CP, Starbucks coffee maker, etc, etc

This was true a few weeks ago. Not sure if that changed. Maybe thy will get both.

 

[humveedriver]

The flight deck of the 717 is like an MD-11. Fairly significant departure from the DC9. Higher thrust engines, higher operating altitude. The only real similarity is the wing and flight control system of cables and pulleys. No one who flies the line has a clue what is going on with the 717 at SWA or Delta.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

PCL- would you want the choice?

I think you'd be surprised at the significant number that would would consider tearing up the "lottery ticket" if given the choice of WN as it stands, or DL with a fair and equitable SLI.

 

[fam62c]

Do we really need another thread about this rumor? This BS has been going on for months now.

 

[filejw]

The flight deck of the 717 is like an MD-11. Fairly significant departure from the DC9. Higher thrust engines, higher operating altitude. The only real similarity is the wing and flight control system of cables and pulleys. No one who flies the line has a clue what is going on with the 717 at SWA or Delta.

Having flown both I can say this has zero to do with the discussion.I really think they will go with the 319 anyway.

 

[Whataburger]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

He has stated that publicly as well. I suspect that if the deal goes down, it will be for jets only.

 

[waveflyer]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

Winner^^^

 

[waveflyer]

I think you'd be surprised at the significant number that would would consider tearing up the "lottery ticket" if given the choice of WN as it stands, or DL with a fair and equitable SLI.

I don't view choice as a bad thing -
I don't view this as any more realistic than PCL does- but for our own culture's sake, I wish a deal could be done that would provide a choice for AT pilots. Some would definitely choose delta- and what great choices to have

But this:....."with a fair and equitable SLI." is.....well, it would highlight that every airline out there that was defending you against big mean swa would be employing all tactics at their disposal in an SLI as well. Especially delta.
I think it would put things in perspective and give pilots a greater sense of control over their lives.
I see no downside, where I think it sucks that it wouldn't happen- but I very much doubt it will

 

[captain caveman]

but for our own culture's sake, I wish a deal could be done that would provide a choice for AT pilots.

What makes the culture so great is how well the Southwest pilots are compensated. With good will alone, you are JetBlue or Skywest pilots. It's all about the total compensation.