Delta and SWA 717's a done deal?

[ACL65PILOT]

Word from two seperate sources the same day:

1: Senior Sim guy at AAI on jumpseat giving line check: Negotiations going well for the 717s until Airbus stepped in and told delta that what ever deal they work out with Boeing, we will one up it for some 319s. Last longer perform better, etc, etc.

2: JS home to ORF on a delta 320. The FO said he was told the exact same thing. I forget from whom. Wife, union, FA, CP, Starbucks coffee maker, etc, etc

This was true a few weeks ago. Not sure if that changed. Maybe thy will get both.

 

[humveedriver]

The flight deck of the 717 is like an MD-11. Fairly significant departure from the DC9. Higher thrust engines, higher operating altitude. The only real similarity is the wing and flight control system of cables and pulleys. No one who flies the line has a clue what is going on with the 717 at SWA or Delta.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

PCL- would you want the choice?

I think you'd be surprised at the significant number that would would consider tearing up the "lottery ticket" if given the choice of WN as it stands, or DL with a fair and equitable SLI.

 

[fam62c]

Do we really need another thread about this rumor? This BS has been going on for months now.

 

[filejw]

The flight deck of the 717 is like an MD-11. Fairly significant departure from the DC9. Higher thrust engines, higher operating altitude. The only real similarity is the wing and flight control system of cables and pulleys. No one who flies the line has a clue what is going on with the 717 at SWA or Delta.

Having flown both I can say this has zero to do with the discussion.I really think they will go with the 319 anyway.

 

[Whataburger]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

He has stated that publicly as well. I suspect that if the deal goes down, it will be for jets only.

 

[waveflyer]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

Winner^^^

 

[waveflyer]

I think you'd be surprised at the significant number that would would consider tearing up the "lottery ticket" if given the choice of WN as it stands, or DL with a fair and equitable SLI.

I don't view choice as a bad thing -
I don't view this as any more realistic than PCL does- but for our own culture's sake, I wish a deal could be done that would provide a choice for AT pilots. Some would definitely choose delta- and what great choices to have

But this:....."with a fair and equitable SLI." is.....well, it would highlight that every airline out there that was defending you against big mean swa would be employing all tactics at their disposal in an SLI as well. Especially delta.
I think it would put things in perspective and give pilots a greater sense of control over their lives.
I see no downside, where I think it sucks that it wouldn't happen- but I very much doubt it will

 

[captain caveman]

but for our own culture's sake, I wish a deal could be done that would provide a choice for AT pilots.

What makes the culture so great is how well the Southwest pilots are compensated. With good will alone, you are JetBlue or Skywest pilots. It's all about the total compensation.

 

[Crash Pad]

Aribus can't compete with this offer, planes basically free, training free, only cost will be engines.

You clearly don't know much about the engines on the 717.

 

[waveflyer]

What makes the culture so great is how well the Southwest pilots are compensated. With good will alone, you are JetBlue or Skywest pilots. It's all about the total compensation.

Well you know everything don't you?
I don't separate compensation from culture- it is a part of it, in the form of kept promises, and equitable sharing of profits by those who earn them.
But don't fool yourself that SWA is anything close to any company that retains Ford and Harrison union busters. (which is both of those)

 

[flyingitalian]

AirTran and Southwest reject!

Originally Posted by captain caveman
What makes the culture so great is how well the Southwest pilots are compensated. With good will alone, you are JetBlue or Skywest pilots. It's all about the total compensation.

The top quote from you own profile shows what you know about culture at SWA. The second just confirms the first.

 

[outerlimits]

I ran into a AirTran 717 pilot recently. He said Gary told him personally that if we get rid of all 717's, we will keep the pilots.

I have not been lied to by Gary or SWA yet.

If the AirTran pilots have a choice then Kelly would be true to Thais word .

I think I would take Delta over SWA if it is true that that Delta pilots believe in seat protection and relieve seniority .

 

[Whataburger]

Outerlimits:

Did Gary say they would have a choice?

Everyone has a different belief system. I respect and understand yours even though it's different than mine.

You want to "relieve" them of their seniority? Froidian slip?

I know Froidan is probably spelt wrong. There is a silent something in it.

 

[waveflyer]

Freudian
You know

 

[Citrusflyer]

The only way an AT guy makes it into a double-breasted suit would be if they interview and get on the bottom of the list - or go buy one at Jos A. Bank. But it'll probably take about half a dozen more "done-deal" threads before folks wake up to that fact...

 

[LandGreen]

The only way an AT guy makes it into a double-breasted suit would be if they interview and get on the bottom of the list - or go buy one at Jos A. Bank. But it'll probably take about half a dozen more "done-deal" threads before folks wake up to that fact...

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

DL will not entertain 717s with pilots. Mgt is way too smart, unlike GK, to start a pilot civil war during a SLI with lowest pay a/c on the list.

 

[DonVerita]

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

DL will not entertain 717s with pilots. Mgt is way too smart, unlike GK, to start a pilot civil war during a SLI with lowest pay a/c on the list.

Why would the 717 be the "lowest pay a/c on the list"? How many seats do the Delta DC-9's have?

You probably already know this, but the AirTran 717's have 117 seats, including Business Class. In an all-coach configuration (like SWA would do), that number becomes 125. Also, a 717 cockpit is nothing like a DC-9, not even close. If a former NWA DC9 pilot were to step into a 717 cockpit, he would be lost amongst all the digital screens. Same goes for an ATN 717 pilot who might step into a DC9 and its round dial steam guages.

I would imagine that the DL pay rate would fall somewhere between the DC-9 and MD90.

 

[scoreboardII]

You clearly don't know much about the engines on the 717.

Besides they suck and couldn't pickup dirt better than a Dyson? No, I know nothing.

Put it this way, if the motors were good, wouldn't they be on more jets?