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Delta and Northwest revive merger talks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr.B
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 37

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"It seems like many at DAL (or at least here on FI) are like the Star Belly Sneetches, but you think that Sylvester McMonkey McBean is your friend. Remember he packs up and leaves after he takes ALL of the Sneetches money, stars or not. "----Tref


What language is this Tref guy speaking? Is he on dope?


Bye Bye--General Lee

He's speaking Dr. Seuss. If you really did just have a kid, you'll be speaking fluent nonsense before you know it. Tref...Probably not on dope. Dr. Seuss??? Most likely.

Ok, sorry, back to our paranoia and pilot bashing. A quick read of "The Sneetches" might do you some good.. might remind you who you're really cutting deals with up there on Virginia Ave.
 
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Actually NWA pilots have a contract that has a Scope section as well. It says that any acquisition/merger requires a merged seniority list and that ALPA merger policy will be used if the other airline is ALPA as well. ALPA merger policy has a clearly defined 150 day timetable for arbitration if a negotiated list is not possible, so we may see arbitration eventually anyway.

You are right. What do you think that the NWA seniority list will look like by then?

BTW, I appreciate the words about RA, and I fully agree. So far, he has come through on everything he has said. More than all of his predecessors in my tenure-4. The MEC leadership does seem to have a good relationship with him, though. Trust but verify.
 
You are right. What do you think that the NWA seniority list will look like by then?

Save us, please. But while you're saving us please forget that NWA has more cash, less debt, better profits (% and actual amount) yet is 1/3 smaller than you. Also, glance over our fortress hubs, 787 options (RA is very happy about those I am told), Asia network, KLM history, etc.

We will be fine, even with those old, paid for, DC-9's. If I were junior at DAL, I would be a bit nervous......
 
I don't think the worry is about what mgmt wants to do. They would love to have a Texas Air type operation. Dal=Cal and Nwa=Eal. That way when the Nwa employees provide the expected reaction, the absolute meltdown of the airline they break off the pieces they want and trash the rest. Easy way around our section 1. Now the part which is a little more disturbing is our Dalpa brothers siding with mgmt in their little scenario to get a leg up on us. Just shows how little brotherhood that there really is and I believe that the MAJORITY of pilot at Dal know this is underhanded they will stay silent. They are being used by the money men, but their greed and feeling of power is too intoxicating. I would like to see natl. come out against this, however Prator is in the posistion he is in do to the above cal/eal deal.



You are right. What do you think that the NWA seniority list will look like by then?

Save us, please. But while you're saving us please forget that NWA has more cash, less debt, better profits (% and actual amount) yet is 1/3 smaller than you. Also, glance over our fortress hubs, 787 options (RA is very happy about those I am told), Asia network, KLM history, etc.

We will be fine, even with those old, paid for, DC-9's. If I were junior at DAL, I would be a bit nervous......
 
It may be that any chance for the pilots to get anything ahead of this merger was going out the door quickly. DALPA realized there was no chance for an SLI agreement and salvaged a little bit for it's group. With all the work DALPA put in to try and get pilot benefit from the merger there was probably no way they were going to let it slip away. I don't think there is any way they put provisions in there to screw the NWA pilots.

If this is the case, then it looks like DL gets some money and NWA gets to keep the advancements from their retirements. Hopefully a combined list will be agreed on relatively quickly and the NWA guys get the pay as well. I would definitely have prefered that we go through this as a unified group with equal benefits but it sounds like there were hard lines drawn on both sides and this was the only way to get anything up front.

It's too bad the two MECs couldn't have built the trust required to work together during the last couple years when the merger signs began to become obvious. I hope it works out well for both sides when all is said and done.
 
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Now the part which is a little more disturbing is our Dalpa brothers siding with mgmt in their little scenario to get a leg up on us. Just shows how little brotherhood that there really is and I believe that the MAJORITY of pilot at Dal know this is underhanded they will stay silent. They are being used by the money men, but their greed and feeling of power is too intoxicating.

Cobra,

Part of the problem is they see themselves as a higher aviation life form than us. Sort of how we slaughter cows without a second thought. We are nothing but meat for their consumption

I hope the bed they crawled into with DAL Mgmt is real cozy, because that's the only "friend" they have left. Blatant anti-union actions like these will be hard, if not impossible, to recover from in the future.
 
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I don't think the worry is about what mgmt wants to do. They would love to have a Texas Air type operation. Dal=Cal and Nwa=Eal. That way when the Nwa employees provide the expected reaction, the absolute meltdown of the airline they break off the pieces they want and trash the rest. Easy way around our section 1. Now the part which is a little more disturbing is our Dalpa brothers siding with mgmt in their little scenario to get a leg up on us. Just shows how little brotherhood that there really is and I believe that the MAJORITY of pilot at Dal know this is underhanded they will stay silent. They are being used by the money men, but their greed and feeling of power is too intoxicating. I would like to see natl. come out against this, however Prator is in the posistion he is in do to the above cal/eal deal.



That's a very NWA pilot biased POV, and you may be right about your interpretation. If so, that would be wrong and natl should stop it. However, the Delta pilot biased version has the NWA MEC trying to pad the combined list with Delta pilots to be furloughed primarily because of the parking of DC-9's and 747-200's. If true, that is equally as "unbrotherly" as the theory you are proposing. If in fact that version is true, the Delta pilots as well as natl would have no other choice but to do what it took to insure that any furloughs from either pilot group were represenative of the percentages of each respective fleet being parked that were responsibile for the furloughs in the first place.

That's 100% fair to all concerned, as there is no moral justification for stacking parts of someone else's seniority list below you to just to absorb furloughs from your side of the fence. Furthermore, if its true that the NWA was demanding super seniority because of retirements (that aren't happening in full force), the mighty 747 (which pays less than 2 other aircraft at Delta), phanton 787's (which pay 2 bucks an hour more than NWA 757 rates, and considerably less than Delta 757 rates), and full credit for 9's and -200's that are obviously on the chopping block to a large degree because of the fuel crisis we're in the middle of.

That version then add that the NWA MEC was using the threat of inevitable arbitration to "go for it" along those lines. While in theory its great for everyone to passionately argue their POV in an arbitration, its likewise not very palatable to be in arbitration arguing for a fair outcome when the other side is trying to rape you, with the safety of knowing a fair outcome is the worst they can likely expect.

Add to that the fact that about 2 billion dollars from management was wasted away by this stalemate, and add to that the fact that most of that money would have gone to the NWA pilots in the form of bigger raises and better work rules, as well as the fact that the NWA PWA also requires an eventual combining of operations anyway, and it doesn't seem so unreasonable for the Delta pilots to give up some parts of their contract (that were going to go away post merger anyway) to facilitate a merger that's going to happen anyway, and try to at least get a portion of the original incentive they were offered. If that's how it happenes, you would likely get much of that too, when your pay and work rules were brought up to theirs anyway.

So as you can see, the two different versions differ radically. Everyone thinks their version is right, but both can't be. All I'm saying is that it would be disgusting if Delta pilots tried to take your planes and growth in a backroom deal with management, but it would be equally disgusting if NWA tried to stack the list with Delta furloughs because of parked NWA planes. Which version is it? If we ever truly know, it may not be for a while.
 
Now the part which is a little more disturbing is our Dalpa brothers siding with mgmt in their little scenario to get a leg up on us.

Your DALPA brothers aren't siding with management. Your DALPA brothers are negotiating with their management. Since when is negotiations considered siding? You're free to negotiate with your management as well.



Just shows how little brotherhood that there really is and I believe that the MAJORITY of pilot at Dal know this is underhanded they will stay silent.

Lectures about brotherhood from a NWA pilot? How much brotherhood do you have between your multi colored book factions?

The Delta pilots wanted and still want a negotiated SLI that is mutually acceptable and creates one pilot group.

They are being used by the money men, but their greed and feeling of power is too intoxicating. I would like to see natl. come out against this, however Prator is in the posistion he is in do to the above cal/eal deal.

Come out against what? Please tell us the details.
 
Cobra,

Part of the problem is they see themselves as a higher aviation life form than us.

Actually, I believe you've got it backwards. The NWA pilots tend to have a bloated sense of themselves. Look at how you treated the Republic pilots.

I'm sorry, but Delta pilots wont be made second class citizens in their own airline.
 
Sure cuts down on the time it takes to get through these threads doesn't it!
Yeah, you only need to read his posts once 'cause it's just the same thing over and over again.
 

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