Delta Air Lines Announces $549 Million Profit Excluding Special Items

[Mach 80]

Must be nice to have shed > $20 billion in debt thru bankruptcy and then cheer profits a few years later. Nice way to run a business and screw your debt holders and creditors.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Must be nice to have shed > $20 billion in debt thru bankruptcy and then cheer profits a few years later. Nice way to run a business and screw your debt holders and creditors.

Do we owe you money or something?

 

[Mach 80]

In a way you do. When a company who doesn't use bankruptcy as a way to compete has to compete with companies who do, it costs money for the non-bankrupt airline be it from employees who now have to negotiate their contract with the comparative effect of shredded contracts with employees from airlines who went thru bankruptcy or the more difficult position of having to compete with a competitor who was able to blissfully dump debt from the mismanagement of carrying too much debt or operating costs. The U.S. bankruptcy laws have destroyed the concept of Darwinism within business. To celebrate profits after dumping huge debt loads and shredding contracts and retirements is almost ludicrus and yes, it does harm to employees at truly succesful airlines.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ch11 ended three years ago, and except for the first two quarters after DAL's exit they have failed to turn a profit.

Also, creditors like Boeing were payed 100 cents on a dollar for their debt, and others were paid quite well. It is the whole point behind changing interest. The banks know it is risk, and they assign an interest rate for the given risk.

 

[DTW320]

Excellent answer ACL. Mach80, welcome to Corporate America.....everything you describe is not limited to the airline industry by a long shot. In fact, in terms of creditors vs the airlines in BK, those $$ pale in comparison to most other Fortune 500 BK's through history.

 

[Mach 80]

Thanks but I stand by my post.

 

[The Prussian]

So what you two guys are telling Mach is that corporate America is better off using the government's "crutches". I don't buy that either. The sooner you take government meddling out of the equation, the sooner you'd see a healthy corporate America. All I see is this industry sinking into a morass of quick sand. Mach...thanks for the clarity...someone has to have the guts to say it.

 

[jonjuan]

it does harm to employees at truly succesful airlines.

OK, let's start with this. Give us two examples of "truly successful airlines" and we'll then debate. However, keep in mind that we'll be looking at your examples from birth to current state and how they became truly successful and how they were/are able to and continue to maintain their "true success."
Waiting with baited breath for just two examples.........(bonus points for each example greater than two)....

 

[The Prussian]

OK, let's start with this. Give us two examples of "truly successful airlines" and we'll then debate. However, keep in mind that we'll be looking at your examples from birth to current state and how they became truly successful and how they were/are able to and continue to maintain their "true success."
Waiting with baited breath for just two examples.........(bonus points for each example greater than two)....

Hmmm...with this industry doing so well (with the aid of government intervention)...I know there's got to be more than one good example...hmm... Can I call a friend???

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

In a way you do. When a company who doesn't use bankruptcy as a way to compete has to compete with companies who do, it costs money for the non-bankrupt airline be it from employees who now have to negotiate their contract with the comparative effect of shredded contracts with employees from airlines who went thru bankruptcy or the more difficult position of having to compete with a competitor who was able to blissfully dump debt from the mismanagement of carrying too much debt or operating costs. The U.S. bankruptcy laws have destroyed the concept of Darwinism within business. To celebrate profits after dumping huge debt loads and shredding contracts and retirements is almost ludicrus and yes, it does harm to employees at truly succesful airlines.

mmmmkayyy,

Please do tell what successful airline you work for so I may structure a targeted answer.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

So what you two guys are telling Mach is that corporate America is better off using the government's "crutches". I don't buy that either. The sooner you take government meddling out of the equation, the sooner you'd see a healthy corporate America. All I see is this industry sinking into a morass of quick sand. Mach...thanks for the clarity...someone has to have the guts to say it.

OK Prussian,

You guys and your low wages and no retirement and crap schedules were around which forced EVERYBODY to spiral down your toilet. Sure, you get paid now, but after EVERYBODY had to match your super productivity and Luv.

That "crutch" you cry about helped you at Love Field, did it not?

I'm just sayn....

 

[General Lee]

In a way you do. When a company who doesn't use bankruptcy as a way to compete has to compete with companies who do, it costs money for the non-bankrupt airline be it from employees who now have to negotiate their contract with the comparative effect of shredded contracts with employees from airlines who went thru bankruptcy or the more difficult position of having to compete with a competitor who was able to blissfully dump debt from the mismanagement of carrying too much debt or operating costs. The U.S. bankruptcy laws have destroyed the concept of Darwinism within business. To celebrate profits after dumping huge debt loads and shredding contracts and retirements is almost ludicrus and yes, it does harm to employees at truly succesful airlines.

If you want to be shot after going into BK, move to North Korea. If you want to live in the States, then you will abide by the rules here, which allow for BK. Anyone can go BK and recover. But, there are limits to the number of times, and BK judges can also close the door if the business doesn't have a viable chance to succeed. It is an equal opportunity law. In the meantime, why don't you go to Greatclips and ask for a Hitler haircut.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

In a way you do. When a company who doesn't use bankruptcy as a way to compete has to compete with companies who do, it costs money for the non-bankrupt airline be it from employees who now have to negotiate their contract with the comparative effect of shredded contracts with employees from airlines who went thru bankruptcy or the more difficult position of having to compete with a competitor who was able to blissfully dump debt from the mismanagement of carrying too much debt or operating costs. The U.S. bankruptcy laws have destroyed the concept of Darwinism within business. To celebrate profits after dumping huge debt loads and shredding contracts and retirements is almost ludicrus and yes, it does harm to employees at truly succesful airlines.

Interesting. I said the same thing years ago before Delta filed for bankruptcy. Since deregulation, Delta has had to compete against many airlines operating under chapter 11. Just one of many reasons for Delta's trip through chapter 11.

 

[jonjuan]

Interesting. I said the same thing years ago before Delta filed for bankruptcy. Since deregulation, Delta has had to compete against many airlines operating under chapter 11. Just one of many reasons for Delta's trip through chapter 11.

And of course we'll never get the list of "truly successful airlines" from him anytime soon.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is simple, it is law, the law has been tweaked since DAL and NWA went in, but creditors KNOW what they are getting in to with airlines. Like I said, we pay interest on our credit. That is a fee or risk scale that the banks assign debt based on collateral that the note is back by, risk of default, and overall confidence in the corporation. These same credit institutions were trading DAL stock with it was worth nothing just to make a quick buck. They know the risk. Make no mistake banks and financial institutions make a ton of money off the airlines. Many times the initial capital outlay is peanuts versus what they get in fees and interest. DAL opted to make many of its creditors whole, many more did head and shoulders better than they did with the UAUA or LLC filings.

Who fails in the process is labor, because we do not have any collateral against the corporation or the capital in this instance. We are collateral, and a line item that the creditors want reduced. The last decade has proven that we have in the past been willing to take 50%+ hits in overall compensation and still show up to work and perform as professionals. Going forward, that may change, but last time there really was no upside for labor except to keep whatever paycheck they could maintain still getting deposited twice a month.

As for using the government, well, CH11 is one of many tools that corporations use to historically keep costs in check. With the law changes it will not be as liberally used.