Delta aggressive with it's regional partners

[on autopilot]

Yea, Comair knows all about how aggressive Delta can be.

 

[dojetdriver]

Very true and, moreover, also very true of senior regional pilots.

Indeed.

And before you say senior guys don't care, try to remember that commuting on RJs stinks, even for them, and real senior guys are and will be leaving shortly for good. Don't expect any wiggle room from mainline pilots. But, maybe more mainline jobs will open with those retirements on the way.


OYS

I'll reiterate my previous points, pilot have serious cases of amnesia and a tendency to forget the mistakes they've made in the past.

If that senior guy gets a big fat paycheck and/or an enhanced retirement plan, that commute on the RJ won't seem so bad. Just like it did for him in the 90's, or in the contracts of 2000/2001

And I'll repeat another point, if the retirement package in enhanced, it will definitely have an impact on how the top half of the seniority demographics vote. Especially with the paycuts, as well the carriers that lost retirement plans.

You can argue round and round if you wish how legacy guys are going to stand strong on scope. And that's fine. But again, I'll believe it when I see it. The track record isn't so stellar you know.

 

[bri5150]

Indeed.



I'll reiterate my previous points, pilot have serious cases of amnesia and a tendency to forget the mistakes they've made in the past.

If that senior guy gets a big fat paycheck and/or an enhanced retirement plan, that commute on the RJ won't seem so bad. Just like it did for him in the 90's, or in the contracts of 2000/2001

And I'll repeat another point, if the retirement package in enhanced, it will definitely have an impact on how the top half of the seniority demographics vote. Especially with the paycuts, as well the carriers that lost retirement plans.

You can argue round and round if you wish how legacy guys are going to stand strong on scope. And that's fine. But again, I'll believe it when I see it. The track record isn't so stellar you know.

I honestly don't blame them. What would most people do if they said "Here, I will give you $500k (I am making up the number) if you vote this way. It will not affect you in the least, and there is nothing 'immoral' about it"? There are some that may talk big, but I would have a hard time passing up that cash. Don't get me wrong, I hope they don't vote for more scope relaxation, but as the quote above says, I will believe it when I see it.

 

[General Lee]

Indeed.



I'll reiterate my previous points, pilot have serious cases of amnesia and a tendency to forget the mistakes they've made in the past.

If that senior guy gets a big fat paycheck and/or an enhanced retirement plan, that commute on the RJ won't seem so bad. Just like it did for him in the 90's, or in the contracts of 2000/2001

And I'll repeat another point, if the retirement package in enhanced, it will definitely have an impact on how the top half of the seniority demographics vote. Especially with the paycuts, as well the carriers that lost retirement plans.

You can argue round and round if you wish how legacy guys are going to stand strong on scope. And that's fine. But again, I'll believe it when I see it. The track record isn't so stellar you know.

What you seem to not understand is that many mainline pilots will NEVER forget. Delta furloughed 1310 pilots. United over 2000. It goes on and on. A lot of them are back now, and a lot of them express their disdain of RJs frequently. OYS was one of those furloughed, at UAL. Those furloughs and fleet parkings (DL parked L1011s, 727s, etc after 9-11, right when RJs started to get "popular" to management, but not to frequent business travellers) also caused many people to downgrade to smaller planes, and the widebody Captains of today were probably knocked down a notch too back then. They all remember, and throwing cash at the issue just won't do it this time, or any time in the future. Those 1310 pilots that are now back will also be senior someday, and watching the proliferation of RJs while you are on the street just doesn't wipe away easily. That is something you can't seem to comprehend, probably because you were a part of that proliferation, and now you are seeing the slide downwards.

Another thing you are missing, is that you don't always have to GIVE something in contract negotiations to GET something. Most legacies are still on BK type contracts, and managements know they will be giving a lot of stuff back, which is also called restoration. Even with higher oil (which has come back down a bit in the last week), the airlines are profitable because fare hikes for oil have stuck. Even with a Q1 loss, many are expecting large profits for Q2 and 3. Profitable mainlines often means non profitable regionals, and regionals who won't be getting any more large RJs.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I honestly don't blame them. What would most people do if they said "Here, I will give you $500k (I am making up the number) if you vote this way. It will not affect you in the least, and there is nothing 'immoral' about it"? There are some that may talk big, but I would have a hard time passing up that cash. Don't get me wrong, I hope they don't vote for more scope relaxation, but as the quote above says, I will believe it when I see it.

There was no relaxation in the joint contract between DL/NWA (there has always been a cap or limit on 70-76 seaters), and Unical ALPA is now going after some of that very flying.

The higher pay is coming regardless now, since Airtran (once a very low cost carrier with lower pay scales) is now going to get SWA payscales. That is good for every Mainline, since that is one less LCC the managements can compare against.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[bri5150]

There was no relaxation in the joint contract between DL/NWA (there has always been a cap or limit on 70-76 seaters), and Unical ALPA is now going after some of that very flying.

The higher pay is coming regardless now, since Airtran (once a very low cost carrier with lower pay scales) is now going to get SWA payscales. That is good for every Mainline, since that is one less LCC the managements can compare against.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I hope you are right. I want out of this god forsaken airline.

 

[On Your Six]

So you can honestly say, you would NOT give up scope for a payraise? Gotta raise the BS flag on that. Every single person on here would sell out for a raise. The trick management plays is finding the magical raise amount to satify a majority.



BTW i think I should have the Burns avatar and you should have homer in this discussion!

Legacies still have concessionary contracts. Again, who says you have to give up anything? Tighter scope and pay raises are a part of the agenda.


OYS

 

[Baronman]

Another thing you are missing, is that you don't always have to GIVE something in contract negotiations to GET something. Most legacies are still on BK type contracts, and managements know they will be giving a lot of stuff back, which is also called restoration.

Bye Bye---General Lee

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/19/news/companies/jeff_smisek_united_continental.fortune/index.htm

Have a glance at what the CEO of the worlds largest airline thinks...At least in public he's disagreeing that "they will be giving a lot of stuff back." Specifically read the paragraphs following the header "Video: Why Smisek Reads All his Emails."

 

[On Your Six]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/19/news/companies/jeff_smisek_united_continental.fortune/index.htm

Have a glance at what the CEO of the worlds largest airline thinks...At least in public he's disagreeing that "they will be giving a lot of stuff back." Specifically read the paragraphs following the header "Video: Why Smisek Reads All his Emails."

Of course the CEO won't say that in public, but he wants labor peace and cooperation in the Single Operating Certificate, so he'll change his mind, or else he may wind up with the next USAir. Those UAL and CAL pilots won't take his crap either. This will be an ugly Summer if negotiations stall even longer. So far Delta and ALPA worked well together on SOC, and we'll see if that translates into faster negotiations for Delta pilots.



OYS

 

[Homer Jay]

So you can honestly say, you would NOT give up scope for a payraise? Gotta raise the BS flag on that. Every single person on here would sell out for a raise. The trick management plays is finding the magical raise amount to satify a majority.



BTW i think I should have the Burns avatar and you should have homer in this discussion!

HA HA HA!!! Are you serious?? If you honestly believe this, then you are WAY out of touch. EVERY captain I fly with and pilot I talk to have all said the same thing. There is NO amount of money worth relaxing scope. The General is right. The lessons have been learned, even by the super senior that sold out the young years ago, that scope is everything. What good is a big raise if it further eliminates major airline jobs thus forcing people out of their seats, equipment, or even an active position on the seniority list? It's not happening this time...or ever again.

Homer

 

[lakemead1]

HA HA HA!!! Are you serious?? If you honestly believe this, then you are WAY out of touch. EVERY captain I fly with and pilot I talk to have all said the same thing. There is NO amount of money worth relaxing scope. The General is right. The lessons have been learned, even by the super senior that sold out the young years ago, that scope is everything. What good is a big raise if it further eliminates major airline jobs thus forcing people out of their seats, equipment, or even an active position on the seniority list? It's not happening this time...or ever again.

Homer

Amen. Everyone I have EVER flown with says this is not even negotiable. Every pilot I have talked to says the same thing, scope protection is worth more than money. Way more.

 

[bluefin]

Remember, most if not all current UAL furloughee's were not on property when either scope deal was signed. It either happened prior to employment, or during furlough #1. We had no say in it before nor do we now! The back ward progression in seniority is what's keeping the Scope issue alive! Being a triple fo then getting pushed down to 73/20 fo going from 100+ an hour to 80 an hour hurts also. A point to remember also, both mec have come out and said, "what's the point of getting a fat raise and not having a job!" I think that statement sticks heavily to all current pilots on the seniority lists.

 

[flyboyike]

...scope protection is worth more than money. Way more.

It should have been worth "more than money" all along, but somehow wasn't.

 

[redflyer65]

Legacies still have concessionary contracts. Again, who says you have to give up anything? Tighter scope and pay raises are a part of the agenda.


OYS

Yea, that's gonna go over like a lead balloon in this economy. HaHa.

Good luck with that..

RF

 

[IFLYASA]

Yes but 50 seaters will be departing the fleet sooner than later, and both mainline pilot groups at Unical and Delta are UNLIKELY to ALLOW you to have more 70/76 seaters, or anything larger. Most mainline pilots want a piece of your 70/76 seat flying too. And before you say senior guys don't care, try to remember that commuting on RJs stinks, even for them, and real senior guys are and will be leaving shortly for good. Don't expect any wiggle room from mainline pilots. But, maybe more mainline jobs will open with those retirements on the way.


OYS

Mainline, you guys kill me. Egos to big to fly 76 seater, but want the routes for yourself. You think you have all the power in controling how the regionals operate. Your my best friend when you want a ride home, but won't look at me in the terminal. Don't you have a "major" forum to play in? Get a wind check while you are at it.

 

[On Your Six]

Mainline, you guys kill me. Egos to big to fly 76 seater, but want the routes for yourself. You think you have all the power in controling how the regionals operate. Your my best friend when you want a ride home, but won't look at me in the termi, nal. Don't you have a "major" forum to play in? Get a wind check while you are at it.

If you don't want to give us a ride home, just say so. When you get bumped to DTW from ATL and want a ride, hopefully the 777 isn't full.

Also, I am pretty sure we already have payrates for the 76 seaters, but not as low as you guys. Even the CR9. Throw an extra seat on there, and it's ours.

And I normally look and nod at all pilots, unless they stink. Sounds like you need to hit the showers on those short layovers of yours in Greensboro. And bring extra shirts while you are at it. Slider, you stink.


OYS

 

[nimtz]

Yea, that's gonna go over like a lead balloon in this economy. HaHa.

Good luck with that..

RF

HA HA. Another genius who reads USA Today to get his business savvy. Most legacies made money in '10 and given the state of the economy '09 wasn't horrific. Only reason profit estimates have been taken down this year is oil which has lost its speculative pop in last two weeks. If we start seeing significantly lower yields then it's indicative of lower Q2 GDP. Till then if you're going to rub it in our face that legacy guys are screwed try to bring a better reason then 'look at this economy.'

 

[BOX OFFICE]

If you don't want to give us a ride home, just say so. When you get bumped to DTW from ATL and want a ride, hopefully the 777 isn't full.

Also, I am pretty sure we already have payrates for the 76 seaters, but not as low as you guys. Even the CR9. Throw an extra seat on there, and it's ours.

And I normally look and nod at all pilots, unless they stink. Sounds like you need to hit the showers on those short layovers of yours in Greensboro. And bring extra shirts while you are at it. Slider, you stink.


OYS

He isn't even hiding his writing style anymore. Either that, or General Lee forgot to log out of this account before he posted as "General Lee". Nice job Genny. Try to be more careful when you come on here to stir the pot with the regional guys (you're so pathetic... get a life).

 

[IFLYASA]

If you don't want to give us a ride home, just say so. When you get bumped to DTW from ATL and want a ride, hopefully the 777 isn't full.

Also, I am pretty sure we already have payrates for the 76 seaters, but not as low as you guys. Even the CR9. Throw an extra seat on there, and it's ours.

And I normally look and nod at all pilots, unless they stink. Sounds like you need to hit the showers on those short layovers of yours in Greensboro. And bring extra shirts while you are at it. Slider, you stink.


OYS

I gladly give any Delta pilots a rids on my jumpseat. I did today as a matter of fact. I'll even work the numbers to get them onboard. I am not going to DTW so don't worry about me on your jumpseat.

Will your ego actually let you fly a 77 aircraft? I don't think so.

I have plenty of Delta friends that are awesome guys. It just guys like you that get the attitude that you are better than everybody. No I don't stink. I learned in ROTC to keep a clean uniform. If you are an F-15 guy, it sounds like you came from Eglin. Although, I will say the F-15 is the sweetest fighter made. Kudos for that.

 

[jonjuan]

Although, I will say the F-15 is the sweetest fighter made. Kudos for that.

Next to the Tomcat, of course.

 

[silver02ex]

Also, I am pretty sure we already have payrates for the 76 seaters, but not as low as you guys. Even the CR9. Throw an extra seat on there, and it's ours.



OYS

In that case why didn't Delta put more seats in it and give it to mainline. When the 900's left Mesa, why didn't they go to Delta pilots, why were they passed around to Comair, Pinnacle, ASA, and Mesaba? You say the airplane can take more seats right? why didn't they put more in and make more money? 36 E-175 went to compass. 36 900's went to Mesaba, that NWA ordered. None of it went to Mainline NWA. If I recall those can seat up to 90 seats, however they cap it at 76 seats... Hummm I wonder why? You make it sound like you can take them back whenever you want.. DO IT!!!!! I want a mainline job just like the next guy. What does it mean that you have 76 seats rates? We (at Pinnacle) have 70 seat rates in the new contract, but there's not a single 700 on property and I doubt there will be. We see new routes on the 200's all the time. I just did RDU to ALB... Where did that come for? or PVD to DCA? PWM to LGA really? I can go on and on. If those 175 or 900 are going to DAL pilots, wouldn't they be there by now?

 

[On Your Six]

He isn't even hiding his writing style anymore. Either that, or General Lee forgot to log out of this account before he posted as "General Lee". Nice job Genny. Try to be more careful when you come on here to stir the pot with the regional guys (you're so pathetic... get a life).

There is a "General Lee writing style?". Paranoid much?????? Watch out, there's someone behind you! Oh wait, it's your shadow and your cat. I bet you're lonely.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

In that case why didn't Delta put more seats in it and give it to mainline. When the 900's left Mesa, why didn't they go to Delta pilots, why were they passed around to Comair, Pinnacle, ASA, and Mesaba? You say the airplane can take more seats right? why didn't they put more in and make more money? 36 E-175 went to compass. 36 900's went to Mesaba, that NWA ordered. None of it went to Mainline NWA. If I recall those can seat up to 90 seats, however they cap it at 76 seats... Hummm I wonder why? You make it sound like you can take them back whenever you want.. DO IT!!!!! I want a mainline job just like the next guy. What does it mean that you have 76 seats rates? We (at Pinnacle) have 70 seat rates in the new contract, but there's not a single 700 on property and I doubt there will be. We see new routes on the 200's all the time. I just did RDU to ALB... Where did that come for? or PVD to DCA? PWM to LGA really? I can go on and on. If those 175 or 900 are going to DAL pilots, wouldn't they be there by now?

Why didn't DL put in more seats? I guess you are THAT cheap. Your newhire FOs make $20 something an hour? That is where the get the savings, not necessarily the Capts. And same goes for your flight attendants. Those CR9s can carry up to 86 people right? But, DL wants some first class seats, which brings it down. If they brought it up to 77 seats, that would go to us, and we have the payrates. But, they like that you will do it for less.

Why hasn't our group gone for your bigger RJs yet? ALPA has a conflict of interest representing both of us, which is why the DPA is gaining support with the mainline pilot group, and ALPA is getting nervous. Over half of the questions on a recent calling center poll asked about the DPA (self union) and our opinions. They will listen to us, or get voted out. A lot will be shown when ALPA gives their opener for the next contract negotiations here shortly. No pressure! Expect the need for tighter scope, which is better for all of us.



OYS

 

[homerjdispatch]

OYS and Genital lee....Its like Clark Kent and superman... Never in the same place at the same time

 

[General Lee]

OYS and Genital lee....Its like Clark Kent and superman... Never in the same place at the same time

Everyone knows I live in ATL, but I think he flies the A320, so that probably means DTW, MSP, MEM, or SLC. I think he is a newhire, so that means probably not MEM or SLC. I would bet DTW.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

sureeeeeeeeeee you putz!

 

[redflyer65]

Also, I am pretty sure we already have payrates for the 76 seaters

OYS

What good is a rate when you can't fly it OYS?

HAHA, you've got to be kidding me.

Let's see, the General has always been known to troll the regional boards and talk trash, now out the blue OYS is here doing the same? Interesting.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

What good is a rate when you can't fly it OYS?

HAHA, you've got to be kidding me.

Let's see, the General has always been known to troll the regional boards and talk trash, now out the blue OYS is here doing the same? Interesting.

RF

And look, you are here too....... Why? Out of the blue, too. Hypocrite! Being back in the airline world again and not on an FBO ramp, I have been reaquainted with RJs again, and that means I have an opinion. Most mainline pilots probably feel the same way about RJs and their affect on pilot careers. My return to my first job was delayed due to their expansion, although I am happy where I am now. I hope you will be happy with your job after the arbitration award comes out.




OYS

 

[General Lee]

What good is a rate when you can't fly it OYS?

HAHA, you've got to be kidding me.

Let's see, the General has always been known to troll the regional boards and talk trash, now out the blue OYS is here doing the same? Interesting.

RF

Wait Six, I have this one. Red, we have the rates incase mainline wants to fly those same RJs with more seats. They can hold more seats, but they are limited to 76. There is also a limit on how many 70 or 76 seaters they can have, and they are very close to the contractual limit. You know about contractual limits, right? Like how many flights Volaris can fly in a code share with you? Oh no, you aren't perfect. You aren't. Enjoy that 717 when you are bumped to it, after you pay for the type rating. That SLI will be tough for you probably, but it will be fun for the rest of us to watch.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And look, you are here too....... Why? Out of the blue, too. Hypocrite! Being back in the airline world again and not on an FBO ramp, I have been reaquainted with RJs again, and that means I have an opinion. Most mainline pilots probably feel the same way about RJs and their affect on pilot careers. My return to my first job was delayed due to their expansion, although I am happy where I am now. I hope you will be happy with your job after the arbitration award comes out.




OYS

Six,

Why would Red think you wouldn't be interested in talking about RJs? He's running scared about this arbitration thing coming up. It's understandable, he's nervous as all heck.

And Freebrd flies CR9s in Vietnam. Nuff said there.


Bye Bye---General Lee