Delta aggressive with it's regional partners

[COOPERVANE]

Pretty informative

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ne...onals-revealed-in-latest-earnings-calls/page1

The squeeze is gonna get worse

 

[WWEfan]

I think General Lee just wet himself.

 

[777forever]

Hopefully the 200 stage lengths improve more in June because these 5 and 6 leg days week after week is tiring and doesn't pay well.

Longer stage lengths are more productive and more profitable for the company and the pilot group.

 

[73belair]

I've got a CVG to MSY this week. 700 miles. I can't remember the lat time I flew the 200 that far!

 

[johnpeace]

I think this kind of stuff is going to push SKYW and RAH to want more control over routes/equipment they fly for their 'mainline partners'. Codeshare anyone?

 

[damnflyboy]

The airlines (especially the regionals) are generally reactive, not proactive. Prepare for a world of suck...again.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

They mad

 

[Medeco]

The airlines (especially the regionals) are generally reactive, not proactive. Prepare for a world of suck...again.

In the past, yes.

I seriously doubt the likes of Jerry Atkin, will just say ohh well... and take it up the you know what for too long.

 

[bluefin]

Does skywest own Dal or Ual? Other wise he may not have a choice in the matter, hang on its gonna be a fun ride!!

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Hopefully the 200 stage lengths improve more in June because these 5 and 6 leg days week after week is tiring and doesn't pay well.

Longer stage lengths are more productive and more profitable for the company and the pilot group.

It may be better for the regional, but mainline wants first class seats and they're not putting them on a crj-200.

 

[On Your Six]

I think this kind of stuff is going to push SKYW and RAH to want more control over routes/equipment they fly for their 'mainline partners'. Codeshare anyone?

Let's hope mainline pilots wrestle more scope control AWAY from managements and start to rebuild the mainline brand and service for the better with upcoming contracts. More mainline planes and less RJs mean better jobs for future mainline pilots that WERE RJ pilots. If you are senior and started a family during the slowdown after 9-11, either jump ship and start over like everyone else, or watch regionals get smaller like Comair, not get new larger planes thanks to tightening scope, and see overall conditions deteriorate. With airlines like Southwest coming to ATL, do you think it is smart to compete with RJs against their planes? No. So, don't be a chump, go for the job BUMP! Or you can be like John Peace and have no ambition and hope for larger planes to come to your own ramp someday. It just won't happen again John, unless SKW tries their own Indy Air. I highly advise that!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

It may be better for the regional, but mainline wants first class seats and they're not putting them on a crj-200.

Mainline pilots will not vote to allow anymore 70/76 seaters. We've learned our lesson, and we aren't in BK or even close to it. There is a limit, and then it will stop, or go backwards and the number will get smaller.


OYS

 

[dojetdriver]

Longer stage lengths are more productive and more profitable for the company and the pilot group.

Not at all as cut and dried/black and white as that. If a 200 is flying 8-10-12 legs a day, that's how many chances it had to manage that revenue

If a 200 is only flying 6-8 legs in a day, well, that's less chances that plane had to manage that revenue. Now toss in ticket pricing, if you assume that they were at least semi equal, what was more profitable? If the longer stage lengths were charging LESS than the short ones, what's more profitable?

Like I said, it's not really that easy to sum up. Toss in that the 200 may be going to smaller markets that are close to ATL and a company like ASA may be 1 of 2, or possibly the ONLY carrier serving the city. The ability for DAL to charge a hefty fare is pretty good.

Does skywest own Dal or Ual? Other wise he may not have a choice in the matter, hang on its gonna be a fun ride!!

Good point, but UAL does owe Jerry a hefty amount of money. And by the time UAL pays it off at the terms they agreed to, Jerry will be laughing in the end.

Mainline pilots will not vote to allow anymore 70/76 seaters. We've learned our lesson, and we aren't in BK or even close to it. There is a limit, and then it will stop, or go backwards and the number will get smaller.


OYS

We can only hope it's that way. But you'll ALWAYS have the seniority demographic screwing everything up. The senior pilots and the "I got mine" mentality. Sadly, it will NEVER go away in the this career. Couple that with carrots dangled in negotiations such as scope for a bigger retirement, and you can see what I'm getting at. Also, pilots seem to suffer from severe cases of amnesia. In other words, we seem to forget past mistakes. Case in point, the CRJ first arrives on the scene, bad. Never should have happened/been agreed to. Later, a big fat pay check is dangled for more RJ's, even worse, never should have happened.

Like I said, we can only hope what you said pans out. But given what mainline has done over the last 15 or so years during both the "glory days" and the worst times ever seen in the industry, I'll believe it all when I see it. Not before.

 

[777forever]

It may be better for the regional, but mainline wants first class seats and they're not putting them on a crj-200.

Im not advocating putting the 200 on flights of 750nm or more(Delta 1st class range requirement). We just need more flights in the 400-600 mile rage. More ATL-SHV/ATL-LFT type routes and less ATL-CSG/ATL-TYS stuff. I see with the recent pairings our CVG flying has increased and that should help with the stage lengths

Let's hope mainline pilots wrestle more scope control AWAY from managements and start to rebuild the mainline brand and service for the better with upcoming contracts. More mainline planes and less RJs mean better jobs for future mainline pilots that WERE RJ pilots. If you are senior and started a family during the slowdown after 9-11, either jump ship and start over like everyone else, or watch regionals get smaller like Comair, not get new larger planes thanks to tightening scope, and see overall conditions deteriorate. With airlines like Southwest coming to ATL, do you think it is smart to compete with RJs against their planes? No. So, don't be a chump, go for the job BUMP! Or you can be like John Peace and have no ambition and hope for larger planes to come to your own ramp someday. It just won't happen again John, unless SKW tries their own Indy Air. I highly advise that!


OYS

I believe very soon the regionals will be forced to shrink or go away completely because of a lack of staffing. While there will never be a shortage at the mainline carriers the regionals are going to have very very critical issues with pilot staffing.

 

[Meiguy]

I believe very soon the regionals will be forced to shrink or go away completely because of a lack of staffing. While there will never be a shortage at the mainline carriers the regionals are going to have very very critical issues with pilot staffing.

Thats what I think will happen in the future. The margin is too slim for regionals that they are never going to be able to increase pay and benefits to a level that will attract pilots when massive hiring ensues in the later part of the decade. Mainline may have the same problem finding qualified pilots once the regional pools start drying up but not anywhere near the same degree of whats going to happen at the regionals.

 

[johnpeace]

They can only shrink so much before reaching a sort of negative critical mass where it's just too costly to continue to operate. Size = savings.

I can't see outsourcing going away...it's too important a tool for mainline managements to control costs and manipulate labor.

Interesting times are ahead though, that's for sure.

 

[flyboyike]

The senior pilots and the "I got mine" mentality. Sadly, it will NEVER go away in the this career.

Very true and, moreover, also very true of senior regional pilots.

 

[damnflyboy]

In the past, yes.

I seriously doubt the likes of Jerry Atkin, will just say ohh well... and take it up the you know what for too long.

I hope you're right...but it looks like JA is starting to check out. Bradford Rich named new President of SkyWest, INC.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skywest-inc-names-bradford-r-rich-president-121623828.html

Of course, if he just checked out cold-turkey, it would probably upset the share-holders. That's probably why he's sticking around with this re-arrangement. It's also important to note that I can be a consipracy theorist.

 

[johnpeace]

Or you can be like John Peace and have no ambition and hope for larger planes to come to your own ramp someday. It just won't happen again John, unless SKW tries their own Indy Air. I highly advise that!

I'm glad you enjoy your job! I like mine too!

 

[777forever]

.

Interesting times are ahead though, that's for sure.

And that would be an understatement!

 

[JumpersAway]

It is fact- the regional hay day is over. What will happen over the next 8 years will be a MAJOR shift in doctrine from fee for departure, to code share and merge. I'm absolutely certain we will transform into a stand alone carrier at some point. The question is only a matter of when. Skywest Inc. knows the Indy thing isn't going to work. They are going to purchase a brand in distress. Think it's odd or far fetched????? USAirways and American are looking for dance partners. Think about this for a sec- American (already on the financial gallows) files for bankruptcy and Skywest moves in for the deal. Buys AMR, and divests Eagle. Our own 50 seat aircraft feed the beast, and attrition keeps labor costs low. Instant, turn key international route structure with a recognized stand alone brand.Competent and smart management tallent would make this work. Although I don't always agree with what they do, it is a fact that the management at Skywest Inc. will make money. Although seemingly far fetched, it's but one of the many possibilities. Skywest Inc. is too savvy to just wither away and die.........it will survive, albeit in different form.

 

[johnpeace]

Skywest Inc. is too savvy to just wither away and die.........it will survive, albeit in different form.

That's the basis of my thoughts about the whole thing...and I'm with you, there's really no limit to the insane twists and turns the industry can take.

Eh...I don't think SKYW can afford to buy AMR, no matter how deep in bankruptcy they are...though that would create an interesting change in the playing field.

Whatever, I'm keeping my piece on the game board simply because there are enough imaginable scenarios that will follow the coming season of massive change that represent an opportunity for our situation to get a lot better.

<shrug>

Guess we'll see....

 

[JoeMerchant]

It is fact- the regional hay day is over. What will happen over the next 8 years will be a MAJOR shift in doctrine from fee for departure, to code share and merge. I'm absolutely certain we will transform into a stand alone carrier at some point. The question is only a matter of when. Skywest Inc. knows the Indy thing isn't going to work. They are going to purchase a brand in distress. Think it's odd or far fetched????? USAirways and American are looking for dance partners. Think about this for a sec- American (already on the financial gallows) files for bankruptcy and Skywest moves in for the deal. Buys AMR, and divests Eagle. Our own 50 seat aircraft feed the beast, and attrition keeps labor costs low. Instant, turn key international route structure with a recognized stand alone brand.Competent and smart management tallent would make this work. Although I don't always agree with what they do, it is a fact that the management at Skywest Inc. will make money. Although seemingly far fetched, it's but one of the many possibilities. Skywest Inc. is too savvy to just wither away and die.........it will survive, albeit in different form.

I agree. Because of this, a major focus in our JCBA negotiations should be scope/successorship/fragmentation language. If the above situation does transpire through Skywest Inc., there is no guarantee right now that it will include ASA/XJET pilots...Something to think about.....

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Seriously. How smart does someone have to be to succeed with the lucrative FFD contracts handed out in the last 10 years or so? All they needed was a compliant pilot group and puppy mills. Nothing exceptional about that. Running a global airline with career employees is a tad harder.

It is fact- the regional hay day is over. What will happen over the next 8 years will be a MAJOR shift in doctrine from fee for departure, to code share and merge. I'm absolutely certain we will transform into a stand alone carrier at some point. The question is only a matter of when. Skywest Inc. knows the Indy thing isn't going to work. They are going to purchase a brand in distress. Think it's odd or far fetched????? USAirways and American are looking for dance partners. Think about this for a sec- American (already on the financial gallows) files for bankruptcy and Skywest moves in for the deal. Buys AMR, and divests Eagle. Our own 50 seat aircraft feed the beast, and attrition keeps labor costs low. Instant, turn key international route structure with a recognized stand alone brand.Competent and smart management tallent would make this work. Although I don't always agree with what they do, it is a fact that the management at Skywest Inc. will make money. Although seemingly far fetched, it's but one of the many possibilities. Skywest Inc. is too savvy to just wither away and die.........it will survive, albeit in different form.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Seriously. How smart does someone have to be to succeed with the lucrative FFD contracts handed out in the last 10 years or so? All they needed was a compliant pilot group and puppy mills. Nothing exceptional about that. Running a global airline with career employees is a tad harder.

It proved to be too much for Johnny O at MESA.

Before you go dismissing SkyWest, the combined operation is over 700 airplanes and is the third largest carrier in the world by number of operation per day; more than Unical, more than Delta.

 

[On Your Six]

It proved to be too much for Johnny O at MESA.

Before you go dismissing SkyWest, the combined operation is over 700 airplanes and is the third largest carrier in the world by number of operation per day; more than Unical, more than Delta.

Yes but 50 seaters will be departing the fleet sooner than later, and both mainline pilot groups at Unical and Delta are UNLIKELY to ALLOW you to have more 70/76 seaters, or anything larger. Most mainline pilots want a piece of your 70/76 seat flying too. And before you say senior guys don't care, try to remember that commuting on RJs stinks, even for them, and real senior guys are and will be leaving shortly for good. Don't expect any wiggle room from mainline pilots. But, maybe more mainline jobs will open with those retirements on the way.


OYS

 

[homerjdispatch]

Sex, Seniority, salary.... in that order... So if that scope will get you some action, better seniority, or more pay, you will NOT go after scope...

 

[On Your Six]

Sex, Seniority, salary.... in that order... So if that scope will get you some action, better seniority, or more pay, you will NOT go after scope...

Keep hoping for that, it won't happen. Regionals will only grow by mergers, and then continue to shrink it seems.

OYS

 

[homerjdispatch]

Keep hoping for that, it won't happen. Regionals will only grow by mergers, and then continue to shrink it seems.

OYS

So you can honestly say, you would NOT give up scope for a payraise? Gotta raise the BS flag on that. Every single person on here would sell out for a raise. The trick management plays is finding the magical raise amount to satify a majority.



BTW i think I should have the Burns avatar and you should have homer in this discussion!

 

["v"]

I've got a CVG to MSY this week. 700 miles. I can't remember the lat time I flew the 200 that far!

Or 1000nm tp kansas city from philadelphia!