Delay of the Age 65 Rule

[Tejas-Jet]

The second pilot must be under 60 to ensure the safety of the flight.

Tejas Jet works for a regional flying little commuter hoops and doesn't know the first thing about safety. Tejas compromises safety for schedule daily so he has little regard for running the safest organization. But I don't blame Tejas personally as he is just doing what his company preaches which is exactly what he has to do. His companies business model has not lead the industry in any safety practices and its accident record does not reflect the damage it has done to air travel as a whole by chance much more than design.

Whaaaahhhh....wahhhhhh...wahhhhh.

OK..some folks don't like that SWA has the HGS system for hand-flying Cat 3 approaches....

...and some folks don't like the onboard performance computer that we use to get our wt and balance numbers out of the way before we push from the gate...

..and now this guy....know what? Don't like it? Bothers you to some degree? Call the FAA...thats right, call the FAA...let them know all about your concerns...see what they say.

do that instead of crying on FI...you need to grow up.

 

[slaquer5]

Air travel must be government regulated and subsidized to stand the test of time just as it has been during the last 104 years. But the governments as of late have also lost the need to create the safest organizations possible out of comprise and general lack of concern due to recent policy changes.

.

I would have to agree, capitalizm is highly overrated.I think all Big Business in the USA needs to be regulated. Look how successful Cuba has done doing things your way.

 

[Flopgut]

My union is spending lots of money and having a bunch of Washington blitzes pushing the age 65 change. Since the FAA announced they support the change and need to work the issue which they say will take 18 - 24 months, is there anything that can be done to fight against the change at this point, or at a minimum delay the change as long as possible. Anyone know of a formal group opposing the change?

Does calling my Congreassman accomplish anything? Or is congress simply waiting for the FAA to do their thing and then they will approve the change? Could congress approve the change through legislation before the FAA does all their study?

p.s. I already know that I am a bad person for not supprting the change so you do not need to rag about how selfish I am.

Couple thoughts:

Call your NC. They should be started on a financial analysis of the age 65 affects. According to CALALPA, this is going to get pretty ugly. The disparity is very significant, and it is going to have a bearing on everyone's negotiations. Tell your NC you want the benefits balanced out; Take some of the dollars out of the equation for those thirsting for a windfall and retirement will look better. ALPA is supposed to preserve age 60 as a normal retirement age, there is no better way to do that than give age 60-65 wages a haircut. Remember, we have control of the contracts and we are the majority. Don't get fooled by these guys again and we can manage this to every pilots benefit.

Age 65 is probably a reality (although I hope it's fought by individual pilot groups contracturaly). What needs to be done, vigorously I might add, is start fighting age 70! This APAAD effort, and the SWA pilot contingent are probably going to start hammering for it. This [age 65] will be the easiest, most undisciplined financial windfall they've ever enjoyed, and it's only going to wet their whisltle! They'll think it an easier option than traditional collective bargaining (don't have to get their hands dirty helping out everybody) and the government will probably help them again. Mgts will like it too because it divides us...

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

Looks like age 60 is at least dead till sept according to the head of APAAD.



Reauthorization slipped again, with the Dems still trying to get the air traffic controller contract reopened. As the dollars are huge, and the Repubs/White House adamantly against, things have gotten messy at the committee level. Age 65 language (which WILL be included in the bill) is hostage to other, partisan, issues. All we can do is wait it out. It looks unlikely that anything will be voted out of committee this week. That means a delay until the week of July 9th, when Congress returns. The delay makes likely (if not a guarantee) that the issue will not be 'solved' until after Congress returns from its August break and votes (maybe) on FAA Reauthorization in September.

Regardless of how hard we work or how well we do, we are not in control of Congress or its blindness to the need for speed. Another two months will mean 400 more pilots on the street and (an average of) 25 more SWA pilots. Sucks.

Next Blitz is July 17-19. We need to nail this down solidly and, if we need to, have the sponsors lined up that will allow us to move forward in other venues if FAA Rauthorization runs into trouble. Failure is not an option. Too many jobs are at risk.

Let me know as soon as possible as to when you will attend. And make your hotel res NOW. It's summer and there are lots of tourists (and lobbyists) on the Hill.

Funding remains important. The APAAD leadership team asks that you contribute so that we may continue to fund our Washington efforts, as well as generate a multi-month PR campaign that will benefit all of us. Send contributions to:

APAAD
Fifth Third Bank
P.O. Box 635071
Cincinnati, OH 45263-5071

 

[Huck]

25 more SWA pilots. Sucks.

Wellll..... it won't suck for the

- 25 guys who will upgrade to captain,

- the 25 guys who will get hired at SWA,

- the 25 guys who will replace those new-hires at whatever job.

I think if the APAAD guys try real hard, they may recall those moments in their careers, brought to them by the age 60 rule they're now killing.

On a different note - whoever APAAD's lobbyists are, ALPA needs to hire them. You've got to admire their work....

 

[Freight Dog]

Hmmm, I thought it was imminent and that's why ALPA folded.

 

[canyonblue]

Wellll..... it won't suck for the

- 25 guys who will upgrade to captain,

- the 25 guys who will get hired at SWA,

- the 25 guys who will replace those new-hires at whatever job.

YEAH! Brother!!!!! :beer: 60 when you started....60 when you departed!

 

[mdf]

The second pilot must be under 60 to ensure the safety of the flight.

Tejas Jet works for a regional flying little commuter hoops and doesn't know the first thing about safety. Tejas compromises safety for schedule daily so he has little regard for running the safest organization. But I don't blame Tejas personally as he is just doing what his company preaches which is exactly what he has to do. His companies business model has not lead the industry in any safety practices and its accident record does not reflect the damage it has done to air travel as a whole by chance much more than design."

Nice post. Could you back all that up with facts, or are you just talking out your a$$ like that guy on the ESPN commercial?

 

[BVT94]

YEAH! Brother!!!!! :beer: 60 when you started....60 when you departed!

Can I get that on a sticker? Cheers:beer:

 

[Chest Rockwell]

YEAH! Brother!!!!! :beer: 60 when you started....60 when you departed!

Would you like to live under the same rules they were employed under their entire careers? Such as:
type req'd to interview.
no 401k 1st year
no paid dh
1/2 pay dh to training
all training on days off
on reserve from first push until last
no 2nd year pay for "extra flying"

Profitsharing and options have been better thus far for those that are senior, but they were not guaranteed in our compensation package. They were at risk components that turned out well.

If the rule (age 60) did not exsist today, no reasonable argument could be made to get it enacted. I believe that should be the test for all laws.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Would you like to live under the same rules they were employed under their entire careers? Such as:
type req'd to interview.
no 401k 1st year
no paid dh
1/2 pay dh to training
all training on days off
on reserve from first push until last
no 2nd year pay for "extra flying"

Yeah, I'll take the Pepsi challenge.

You tell me how 5 years of Captain pay vs. FO pay is less than the above and I'll be happy.

Let me guess--You can't do it, can you? Thought so.

 

[DiamondZ]

Would you like to live under the same rules they were employed under their entire careers? Such as:
type req'd to interview.
no 401k 1st year
no paid dh
1/2 pay dh to training
all training on days off
on reserve from first push until last
no 2nd year pay for "extra flying"

Apples / Oranges

You're trying to compare contract vs regulation.

Next.

 

[PCL_128]

Reauthorization slipped again, with the Dems still trying to get the air traffic controller contract reopened. As the dollars are huge, and the Repubs/White House adamantly against, things have gotten messy at the committee level. Age 65 language (which WILL be included in the bill) is hostage to other, partisan, issues.

Yeah, that sounds like typical selfish APAAD bulls%*$. Age-65 so they can keep flying and making $200k+ at SWA for 5 more years is a "noble" cause, but the Dems supporting NATCA in their effort to achieve a fair contract and not have to take the ass-reaming they took with their government-imposed concessions last year, that's just a "partisan issue."

Another two months will mean 400 more pilots on the street and (an average of) 25 more SWA pilots. Sucks.

How 'bout the thousands of AMR pilots still on the street after 5 years? Any consideration to them? Naw, didn't think so. You'll just give them 5 more.

 

[ttuite]

Unfortunately we will be hearing about age 70 in a few years. The same old arguements will be heard once again. Where does it end?[/quote]

Are you going to try to tell me that even a crew of 70 year old experienced major airline pilots is more dangerous than a 235 hour pilot teamed with a 1500 hour Captain? That is the current situation at the Regionals at this time. For heavens sake just admit it, you want those guys out of your seats. The fallacy in that thinking is that this is not a zero sum game. Air traffic is INCREASING not decreasing. Those old farts may not get out of your seat but there will be more seats in the future.

 

[The Prussian]

Yeah, I'll take the Pepsi challenge.

Yeah, Ill take that Pepsi challenge (your words, not mine!)

No pay DH...yes, I remember,...and after I arrived, 1/2 pay Dh to everything...

It was assumed that if the company wasn't making anything, why should we???...IE...flight was cancelled...no money to company...no money to our bottom line...no money to our paycheck....kinda like we were all entrepreneurs...

No 401k...period...(or match)...period...no 401k..

4-day trip...pays 16.0...no rigs...months on end....

Sr. line pays 103.5...Jr. line pays 86.5...no guarantee, or rigs...

Oh yeah...I forgot to mention that the profit sharing was realigned before my arrival!!!

I may be wrong. but certain memories seem to burn pretty deep, so correct me if I'm wrong!!!

Oh....by the way,...I luved it back then...times were great...


TP