Decline in Charter

[nwf800]

How bad has it gotten all over for charter companies?

 

[say again]

Bad, very bad!!!

 

[nwf800]

just want to make sure its just not our company

 

[timmay]

We were so desperate for a charter we called Blue Star Jets a couple of weeks ago and the dude laughed at us.

 

[cjdriver]

I've heard it's only a 20% decline. We're about to put our bird on charter, will we get any business?

 

[340drvr]

It's pretty grim out west for the low-end to midrange (piston twins, King Airs, Citations). Don't know about the big stuff, but most FBO's in the Rockies are way off on jetA sales.

 

[Publishers]

See the numbers on fractional thread

 

[fu69atacafyeah]

mids, super mids, and a fair share of heavys are moving still...lights are strugglin though

 

[Rerouted]

I agree...from what I'm seeing the big stuff has faired the best, mids and lights are down substantially (with lights fairing the worst).

 

[BEfly]

We have all king airs, beechjets, citations, hawkers,and a Gulfstream. All not doing well. Charter is down everwhere out west. Phone rings alot in the office but nothing ever firms up. Layoffs arre coming soon. I can smell it.......

 

[nwf800]

cjdriver where r u putting your plane on?

 

[StarHustler]

Same with us, we have two Hawker 800a's and one GIII, and none of them are doing much. We have one Hawker on Sentient dedication for two weeks out of the month and the other Hawker is on a lease but available for charter 4 days out of the week. I would say we are down about 34% overall.

 

[Shamus]

Forget the companies, how about the flight crew. I haven't flown in almost a month, which doesn't make for a good nights sleep, anyone have contact info?

 

[CapnVegetto]

I've still got a job, but our charter is WAAAAAY down. I just got back from a 6 day trip, but it's the first I've flown in almost a month. But, while I was gone, there were 2 day trips and we just had a popup today. Maybe it's starting to pick up.....

Entire month of January I flew about 2-3 days. Aircraft is Westwind.

 

[nkt369]

Our flights are always down this time of year, but we're lucky enought to provide pilot services for a couple of private aircraft. It's not much, but it keeps a few of us going through the winter.

 

[bailey3083]

Everyone is hurting bad now. Talked to a bunch of crews recently and everything from Large to Small are sitting on their asses. We have gone from 40+ hours a month to about 6-10 hours a month.
Our big problem is there so much lift out there everyone is whoring their planes out to get work. We were recently under bid by $6000 with a Citation X ( flying a LR60). Other problem is XOJet and Travel Management own their aircraft and are giving them away to keep them flying.
Hopefully rock bottom will hit in the next 60 days and start a uptick.

 

[BEfly]

Yeah, our competitors are giving airplanes away. We can't even compete. One our schedulers quoted 45 trips yesterday and didn't get one! We lost out to a company next door who did one of those trips in a bigger airplane for $4,500 less! They are just doing anything to get cash flow. We've lowered our prices significantly but we certainly are not going to fly at a loss. Better off to let the airplanes sit.

 

[BEfly]

BTW...... During superbowl, operators were calling our AZ based company to see if we had an business for them. They were willing to position a G5 to PHX for free AND the rate was near half what we were charging for our Gulfstream! I ran into one the crew on this airplane and I remember him saying "at least we are flying". Apparently he hasn't done the math. If he did, he would see how they hemorrhage money when that airplane moves.

 

[joelo88]

you'd think that you wouldn't need a business degree to figure out how asinine it is to fly your aircraft at a loss. i mean, if you're in business to make money of course...

our company won't do it thank god. after 10 years in it the stupidity in this industry is still shocking.

 

[NorskAir]

The funny thing is that Wyvern Standard minimums are 75 hours in type in the past 90 days, and the only ones that currently meet that is the bottom feeding operators that fly trips at a loss just to pay the bills.

 

[joelo88]

The funny thing is that Wyvern Standard minimums are 75 hours in type in the past 90 days, and the only ones that currently meet that is the bottom feeding operators that fly trips at a loss just to pay the bills.

exactly. we all know wyvern and all those other auditors are a joke anyway though. i've flown with some"wyvern qualified" pilots... please.

 

[Publishers]

Over the last few years, many of these companies built the business by flying for Netjets, Sentient, and other card companies. They had no real clients of their own. Now you add to that all the people looking to now get income to keep the aircraft, you have a glut.

 

[OCR]

It appears that operators are dropping prices further and further. $19K for a cross country one way on XO Jet, and even at that price they have grounded six Citation X's. Clay Lacy is flying trips at or below cost just to keep planes moving. It makes little sense to fly for such low prices, but because there is so much supply, operators are doing ridiculous things just to keep up the appearance of looking busy.

 

[cjdriver]

Add us to the market; we just put our bird on a certificate. We'll see how much we do, but it does help our flight dept. look a little better to management as we at least have the opportunity to make money.

 

[mavrck]

flew 6 days in Feb. 1 of those trips was a 4 day trip. Not good.

 

[cjdriver]

cjdriver where r u putting your plane on?

Elliott DSM. We're in north Iowa. BTW, we flew 1.6 in Feb., and that was for maintenance. Not good.

 

[Ticker]

Picture if you will...the last 10 seconds of "Thelma and Louise"


The Legacy I was flying has not flown a revenue trip since the beginning of Feb. 1 day out and back...5 hrs. Before that, the last trip was over the New Years holiday. There was one repo to FLL for MX 2 weeks ago. It's on EJM's certificate. It was also for sale unitl a few offers came in at 50% of the original purchase price 2 years ago. The owner says now that he's keeping it and he'll wait out the market. I don't know if I believe that.

 

[stupidpilot]

We're finally starting to pick up. 4 day trip last week, three day a week & 1/2 prior, and a three or four day trip this week. Keeping my fingers crossed it continues and starts to spill over and get you guys some trips too. Good luck y'all!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Ive been in touch with the local 135 here trying to land a job for the last 6 months. I talk to the D.O. every couple weeks and things were pretty bad end of last year beginning of this year.

I track them on flightaware and things have just started to pick up over the last month. Planes are flying a couple times a week now instead of a couple times a month. They had parked one of their planes and they just took it out yesterday again for the first time in 3 months. Hopefully things will improve and they can offer me a position.

 

[414Flyer]

One of my friends who is Chief Pilot for a Gulfstream charter outfit in CT, kept asking me to come out and be an FO for them, and offered to type me in the G-III, but on a two year contract.

They were really busy, but I had a decent gig going in Boise doing winter Weather Mod and summer aerial firefighting, and was not in too big a hurry to pack up and move out east.

It is a good thing too, they went from 4 planes to 1, and now it is just him and his FO there. I would have gotten laid off and would have been in a really bad position right now. They arent flying much, and are trying to big anything they can find to keep the plane flying, (but not at a loss).