Decline in Charter

[joelo88]

The funny thing is that Wyvern Standard minimums are 75 hours in type in the past 90 days, and the only ones that currently meet that is the bottom feeding operators that fly trips at a loss just to pay the bills.

exactly. we all know wyvern and all those other auditors are a joke anyway though. i've flown with some"wyvern qualified" pilots... please.

 

[Publishers]

Over the last few years, many of these companies built the business by flying for Netjets, Sentient, and other card companies. They had no real clients of their own. Now you add to that all the people looking to now get income to keep the aircraft, you have a glut.

 

[OCR]

It appears that operators are dropping prices further and further. $19K for a cross country one way on XO Jet, and even at that price they have grounded six Citation X's. Clay Lacy is flying trips at or below cost just to keep planes moving. It makes little sense to fly for such low prices, but because there is so much supply, operators are doing ridiculous things just to keep up the appearance of looking busy.

 

[cjdriver]

Add us to the market; we just put our bird on a certificate. We'll see how much we do, but it does help our flight dept. look a little better to management as we at least have the opportunity to make money.

 

[mavrck]

flew 6 days in Feb. 1 of those trips was a 4 day trip. Not good.

 

[cjdriver]

cjdriver where r u putting your plane on?

Elliott DSM. We're in north Iowa. BTW, we flew 1.6 in Feb., and that was for maintenance. Not good.

 

[Ticker]

Picture if you will...the last 10 seconds of "Thelma and Louise"


The Legacy I was flying has not flown a revenue trip since the beginning of Feb. 1 day out and back...5 hrs. Before that, the last trip was over the New Years holiday. There was one repo to FLL for MX 2 weeks ago. It's on EJM's certificate. It was also for sale unitl a few offers came in at 50% of the original purchase price 2 years ago. The owner says now that he's keeping it and he'll wait out the market. I don't know if I believe that.

 

[stupidpilot]

We're finally starting to pick up. 4 day trip last week, three day a week & 1/2 prior, and a three or four day trip this week. Keeping my fingers crossed it continues and starts to spill over and get you guys some trips too. Good luck y'all!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Ive been in touch with the local 135 here trying to land a job for the last 6 months. I talk to the D.O. every couple weeks and things were pretty bad end of last year beginning of this year.

I track them on flightaware and things have just started to pick up over the last month. Planes are flying a couple times a week now instead of a couple times a month. They had parked one of their planes and they just took it out yesterday again for the first time in 3 months. Hopefully things will improve and they can offer me a position.

 

[414Flyer]

One of my friends who is Chief Pilot for a Gulfstream charter outfit in CT, kept asking me to come out and be an FO for them, and offered to type me in the G-III, but on a two year contract.

They were really busy, but I had a decent gig going in Boise doing winter Weather Mod and summer aerial firefighting, and was not in too big a hurry to pack up and move out east.

It is a good thing too, they went from 4 planes to 1, and now it is just him and his FO there. I would have gotten laid off and would have been in a really bad position right now. They arent flying much, and are trying to big anything they can find to keep the plane flying, (but not at a loss).

 

[CopilotDoug]

Yeah, our competitors are giving airplanes away. We can't even compete. One our schedulers quoted 45 trips yesterday and didn't get one! We lost out to a company next door who did one of those trips in a bigger airplane for $4,500 less! They are just doing anything to get cash flow. We've lowered our prices significantly but we certainly are not going to fly at a loss. Better off to let the airplanes sit.

Try losing a trip in a CJ because an Challenger operator will do it for the cost of gas! I see alot of operators taking one way trips in hopes that they'll find a trip home/somewhere else at the destination. Very bad business sense if you ask me. Say someone charters their jet for the cost of fuel...is it really worth the risk? Burning cycles/hours, AND risking (heaven forbid) and incident with the aircraft? All for no money? Number one rule in business...

 

[joelo88]

One of my friends who is Chief Pilot for a Gulfstream charter outfit in CT, kept asking me to come out and be an FO for them, and offered to type me in the G-III, but on a two year contract.

They were really busy, but I had a decent gig going in Boise doing winter Weather Mod and summer aerial firefighting, and was not in too big a hurry to pack up and move out east.

It is a good thing too, they went from 4 planes to 1, and now it is just him and his FO there. I would have gotten laid off and would have been in a really bad position right now. They arent flying much, and are trying to big anything they can find to keep the plane flying, (but not at a loss).

yeah good thing you stayed put. i think i know who you're talking about and my company is in the same area. i can tell you this... there are NO jobs to go to around here if you get laid off.

 

[BEfly]

Try losing a trip in a CJ because an Challenger operator will do it for the cost of gas! I see alot of operators taking one way trips in hopes that they'll find a trip home/somewhere else at the destination. Very bad business sense if you ask me. Say someone charters their jet for the cost of fuel...is it really worth the risk? Burning cycles/hours, AND risking (heaven forbid) and incident with the aircraft? All for no money? Number one rule in business...

Wow. I'm at a loss for words, but not surprised. I don't wish more pilots on the street but I do wish the strong operators, like my own, can hang in there and the process will do away with the bottem feeders. They can't keep doing that forever, all they are doing is creating cash flow. Brokers contact us everyday wanting 1 way pricing. How are people doing this? How are outfits with this business model successful?My old roommate has a buddy at TMC that sat in Socal for like 5 days, and they weren't at no Days Inn either. There's probably 15 or 20 of their crews at any given time doing the same thing. We've tried that, it's too risky for us. Worked well when times were good.

On a lighter note, we're making a come back! I flew 20 hrs in Jan, 30 hrs in Feb, and 50 last month. All revenue legs. At this rate I'm gonna be an ungrateful, underpaid, whiney pilot by June! I'm seeing alot more movement out there too. Good luck everyone

 

[BEfly]

BTW, Just checked climbto350. Full page of job postings.

 

[wrxpilot]

I still keep in contact with my old charter employer... They were really slow in Jan/Feb. Now they are slammed! One of my friends there couldn't even get a day off for two weeks in March! They have King Airs and Lears, south FL.

 

[StarHustler]

BTW, Just checked climbto350. Full page of job postings.

Mostly heavy Iron stuff overseas though.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Interesting thread-hopefully things are picking up.

I was at USA Jet-mostly freight charter, and they died (almost) because of over-reliance on Detroit.

I'm currently doing exactly the same thing, same aircraft, except out of Nairobi.

Another x-usajeter is flying a lear out of OH on pax charter. They were looking into moving the plane to Africa to improve their $ situation. THere is LOTS of flying in East Africa.

cliff
NBO

 

[52Vincent]

BTW, Just checked climbto350. Full page of job postings.

True, but if you look closer, most of the flying jobs are overseas, and that's the way it's been for a while. the other positions are non-flying.