declaring an emergency

[FracCapt]

Well now...that would depend on the airplane and the system. I have experienced that very thing, and no, I didn't opt for a gear up landing.

As I stated originally, it would depend on the specific airplane. I also stated that I would probably opt for a gear up in the airplane that I fly if the runways weren't very long.

What type of airplane did this occur in? What happened? Most aircraft have such redundancy that this is not supposed to be possible...but I'm sure it's happened more times than we all know.

Had the runways been exceptionally short, I'd have opted to land somewhere else.

I thought you, of all people, would realize that that may not always be an option. Of course, I'm not going to land at my original destination if it's a 5,000ft strip and there's a 15,000 runway with CAVU 10 miles away.

 

[350DRIVER]

avbug, a dangerous pilot?. I guess I must be just as dangerous if not more so than he is since I am in agreement with most of what he states on this board. Someone with as many years in the industry and with as much vast experience as he has doesn't remain alive by being "dangerous".

3 5 0

 

[Sctt@NJA]

*cough* suck up *cough*

 

[501261]

If you did, in fact, lose EVERYTHING(steering, all brakes, T/R's, ground spoilers, flaps, etc)....well...the type of airplane would dictate your available courses of action. In the airplane I fly, I would probably opt for a gear up landing if the available runways weren't very long.

Well now...that would depend on the airplane and the system. I have experienced that very thing, and no, I didn't opt for a gear up landing.

The airplane came out undamaged, we all walked away.

Had the runways been exceptionally short, I'd have opted to land somewhere else.

I too am a little curious about this statement. Just what kind of airplane did this happen in? Most airplanes that have all of these components“(steering, all brakes, T/R's, ground spoilers, flaps, etc)” have sufficient redundancy to not have them all fail at the same time.

In the Lear for instance (a jet that Avbug has experience in), the steering is electric, there’s nitrogen for the emergency brakes, spoilers and flaps are hydraulic, and the T/R’s have an accumulator. So just how did you lose all these independent systems?

It’s not that I’m doubting you, I’m just curious as to how all the primary, and backup systems to “(steering, all brakes, T/R's, ground spoilers, flaps, etc)” can all fail. It would certainly make for a good discussion.

 

[avbug]

PB4Y-2. Typical of most aircraft of it's era. One hydraulic system, one hyrdaulic source. Blow one actuator, lose everything. Tank doors, flaps, gear. No steering; that's what the brakes are for. Won't track straight, with a free-castering wheel with a forward can't. Lose the brakes on landing, ball it up. No backup systems. Most aircraft of that era worked the same way.

I've already provided the details of that event.

 

[501261]

PB4Y-2. Typical of most aircraft of it's era. One hydraulic system, one hyrdaulic source. Blow one actuator, lose everything. Tank doors, flaps, gear. No steering; that's what the brakes are for. Won't track straight, with a free-castering wheel with a forward can't. Lose the brakes on landing, ball it up. No backup systems. Most aircraft of that era worked the same way.

I've already provided the details of that event.

Funny I didn't realize a PBY4 had T/R's and Spoilers.....jk

You did afterall say

I have experienced that very thing, and no, I didn't opt for a gear up landing..

to losing

(steering, all brakes, T/R's, ground spoilers, flaps, etc)....

I was just trying to figure out a way for an airplane with T/R's and spoilers to lose everything.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Funny I didn't realize a PBY4 had T/R's and Spoilers.....jk

You did afterall say to losing I was just trying to figure out a way for an airplane with T/R's and spoilers to lose everything.

Lots of air carrier stuff could in theory lose everything, You would be having a very bad day if it happened and it would probably take some extreme event to cause it (Ie. impact or structural failure in a major component) Boeing for instance uses a triple hydraulic system with manual backups to that, BUT all the hydraulic systems and resevoirs are located and routed through the main landing gear bay, so in theory a tire coming apart hard and throwing debris could take out enough to purge the entire system of fluid. When you train a full manual reversion in the sim you are down to a-holes and elbows with a heavy stick, manual gear extention, no flaps, spoilers, speedbrakes, T/R's, and depending on the plane, no rudder(it just trails in the slipstream with no hyd pressure) and that is if you have a triple failure and still have the emergency resevoirs for the manual stuff. You did have slats, simply because they would fall out under gravity once you released the pressure.

I wish I could give more detail but it has been 3 years and 2 aircraft Initials since my furlough and the systems are starting to dump for more current information.

 

[avbug]

I stuck my hand out the crew hatch in the forward cabin once (curiosity about the theoretically non-existent boundary layer and low pressure over the cockpit in that location got the better of me) in cruise. That might be a spoiler. It spoiled my hand.

If the aircraft had spoilers, they would have been on the same system. If it helps any, the P2 had one resorvoir and two systems, and had spoilers, and had reverse (though hydraulics has nothing to do with the reverse).

One might go so far as to suppose that the gear was a spoiler, and it was. Then again, so was a prop that refused to feather...it could spoil your whole day.

Or what was left of it...

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I too am a little curious about this statement. Just what kind of airplane did this happen in? Most airplanes that have all of these components“(steering, all brakes, T/R's, ground spoilers, flaps, etc)” have sufficient redundancy to not have them all fail at the same time.

I believe the poster of this scenario is a good old Hawker pilot. There are some accumulators that should provide emergency (well, you know, abnormality) hydrolic power for various systems but all those listed items run on a single hydrolic system.

 

[dash8driver]

Lots of air carrier stuff could in theory lose everything, You would be having a very bad day if it happened and it would probably take some extreme event to cause it (Ie. impact or structural failure in a major component) Boeing for instance uses a triple hydraulic system

UAL 232...