Decade long rumor of SWA buying Q400's back

[27 driver]

Greedy and dumb

First of all Wave....it's not greedy and dumb. It's reality. Maybe in your little bubble guys would vote for a pay cut but in the real world it won't happen. You can spin a blended rate all you want but it's a pay cut for all. For the last 4 years all we have heard from RSW guys is W 2 this pay rates that. Do you really believe that you can sell a senior captain on a pay cut. Even if it was only $10 an hr it could be $1500 or more a month. It's your dream but it won't happen.

 

[27 driver]

Gets it^^^^

Blended or not

We fly it

I agree with blended

He said nothing about blended rates. Just SWA pilots flying SWA routes. I agree that there should be no out sourcing. But you will never get half of the pilot group to vote yes on less hourly pay. Especially the half that wouldn't be affected by the smaller planes. Keep dreaming though.

 

[waveflyer]

Reading not your strong suit?^^^

I agree with blended- BUT in any case we fly it.

 

[fr8doggie]

Wave probably thinks he would be a Capt. on the Q400 so HE would get a pay raise from his current F/O pay.

 

[waveflyer]

First of all Wave....it's not greedy and dumb. It's reality. Maybe in your little bubble guys would vote for a pay cut but in the real world it won't happen. You can spin a blended rate all you want but it's a pay cut for all. For the last 4 years all we have heard from RSW guys is W 2 this pay rates that. Do you really believe that you can sell a senior captain on a pay cut. Even if it was only $10 an hr it could be $1500 or more a month. It's your dream but it won't happen.

So if we get a smaller and a larger type - you want to set up the same old failed legacy system that doesn't really work for any party involved?

What part are you arguing for?
$10-
Chasing carrots as mgmt plays that divide and conquer game
Significantly more pilots in the training pipeline unproductive jobs program??- has anyone ever loved going to school every few years??)
Pilot dynamic where pilots have to fly the bigger plane to make money even if they don't want to and it's hard on the body-

It's not like this is unprecedented- UPS

And believe me, if REALITY were set in stone I'd have never accomplished anything

 

[waveflyer]

Wave probably thinks he would be a Capt. on the Q400 so HE would get a pay raise from his current F/O pay.

I'm pretty sure I'm not governed by the scraps airlines throw at different type airplanes

If I wanted to make more money, I'd bid the plane and schedule that let me give away my line and stay as far from an airplane as possible

 

[fr8doggie]

UPS had this from the beginning. So do you guys.

You are asking current pilots to take a paycut to blend the rates.

How many senior pilots would really vote for that?

 

[waveflyer]

UPS had this from the beginning. So do you guys.

You are asking current pilots to take a paycut to blend the rates.

Unless we buy a heavy jet next?

Then I'd be asking all pilots to accept a nominal raise

(Btw- Do you understand how long it would take before it equated to anything any pilot would notice one way or the other (heavy or smaller)?

We have 600 737's

I know basic math isn't a pilot strong suit when it comes to money or seniority but.....it would have to be one hell of an order out of balance with it's opposite to have an effect)

You sound defensive fr8
Why?

Maybe bc it's the one thing on the pilot side of the business that UPS does right?

Haven't you met the haggard 60 year old airline pilot commuting cross country to start round the world trips that someone that age would rather not, just to bolster their retirement?
And then you look at the numbers, and it's a good idea money wise that they do- but wow it sucks for them at that point- can't spend money from the grave-
What about when that life isn't healthy?

I'd rather be same time zone-

Some like widebody intl

I'd rather have pilots flying the type of plane and routes they WANT to be flying instead of our own contract, THAT WE CONTROL, placing significant financial pressure on us to always keep marching towards the next highest paying bird

 

[fr8doggie]

I thought you were talking about Q400s. Silly me.

 

[waveflyer]

I thought you were talking about Q400s. Silly me.

Yeah, well reality is the airline has been a lot more vocal about spreading out internationally than growing with smaller planes- so the argument has to fit both directions

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

With all the health hazards that come along with bigger airplanes that you claim, why shouldn't you get paid more to fly it? If there are no incentives, younger junior pilots would be forced to fly them and would end up getting older and unhealthier faster.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" Karl Marx

That's what your blended rate sounds like and it's no wonder PCL agrees with you .

 

[scoreboardII]

Napkin talk:

600 737's of which 100 are 800's.

3/7= 143 seats
800=175 seats

We fly the 800 which carries 22% more passengers for the same rate.

The Q400 carries 90.


The Q carries 38% less than our base jet, but only 16% less to the low side compared to what we fly the 22% larger jet, for same rate.

That's not all of the story, lets look at routes and what they make or charge from Kayak:

PHX-Flagstaff= $350 Usair

LAX-Fresno= $450 AK

SEA-GEG=$286 AK


The shorter routes are charging hefty fee's for the luxury of air travel.

You can book a PHX-LA flight for $60, yet to go PHX-FLG its going to cost you $350 to go 1/4th the distance? I know, it's the cost of doing business, and that's why the hype that the shorter routes don't make money is just that, hype management wants you to hear.

That 90 seat jet may carry 16% fewer passengers than the larger jet flies off the base number, but it also charges 4 times as much per ASM. Heck, one full fare passenger on that FLG=PHX leg would pay the flight crews wages.

So, a blended rate, would not be very far from our current wage rate, and if we did due diligence, we could easily show it would make money at current book rate..

 

[waveflyer]

With all the health hazards that come along with bigger airplanes that you claim, why shouldn't you get paid more to fly it? If there are no incentives, younger junior pilots would be forced to fly them and would end up getting older and unhealthier faster.

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" Karl Marx

That's what your blended rate sounds like and it's no wonder PCL agrees with you .

Oh good lord^
Save the hyperbole man-
Our whole seniority system is the most socialist thing in capitalism...
I'm willing to compete for our spots, are you?

 

[waveflyer]

Thank you scoreboard
Great post

Outsourcing is about what thing- union busting

They do it bc we've allowed it

 

[PropPiedmont]

Napkin talk:

600 737's of which 100 are 800's.

3/7= 143 seats
800=175 seats

We fly the 800 which carries 22% more passengers for the same rate.

The Q400 carries 90.


The Q carries 38% less than our base jet, but only 16% less to the low side compared to what we fly the 22% larger jet, for same rate.

That's not all of the story, lets look at routes and what they make or charge from Kayak:

PHX-Flagstaff= $350 Usair

LAX-Fresno= $450 AK

SEA-GEG=$286 AK


The shorter routes are charging hefty fee's for the luxury of air travel.

You can book a PHX-LA flight for $60, yet to go PHX-FLG its going to cost you $350 to go 1/4th the distance? I know, it's the cost of doing business, and that's why the hype that the shorter routes don't make money is just that, hype management wants you to hear.

That 90 seat jet may carry 16% fewer passengers than the larger jet flies off the base number, but it also charges 4 times as much per ASM. Heck, one full fare passenger on that FLG=PHX leg would pay the flight crews wages.

So, a blended rate, would not be very far from our current wage rate, and if we did due diligence, we could easily show it would make money at current book rate..

Now do the real math. Phx-Flg isn't the ticket people are buying. They're buying XXX-FLG.