Deal reached on new pilot hours

[CX880]

I guess we are getting very politically correct and having an option different that someone else’s is not allowed. I continually see the “If you do not have college degree you are not as good as me” I can not accept that, I just too many people who I admire who do not have degrees..

How would the airlines know that you are better than me? Are you going to call them and tell them that you are a really really well educated person but only finished high school? That's why they have benchmarks, chances are really good that you are a better person if you have the degree.

Stop feeding the troll.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I guess I should turn in my ATP because I only finished the 10th grade. I finally got a GED so I could reenlist in the Marine Corps. I didn't have to do anything for it. I just showed up at the base education center and 20 minutes later I had a GED.

Over the years I did take a grand total of 5 classes from various community colleges on base. They were tough courses too: Motorcycle Maintenance, American History 101, Algebra 101, Geology 101 and a basic computer programming course (I don't even remember what it was). Those 5 classes (took me 13 years) plus my pencil whipped GED and credit for military schools allowed me to convince a community college to give me a basic AA degree. Frankly, it's a joke but it was enough to check the box.

I hate to burst your bubble but I made it to a major airline with essentially a tenth grade education and 5 random and unrelated college classes.

BTW, unless I misunderstood the article I got the impression the 800 hour requirement was to get a Commercial certificate. It wasn't a mandated hiring minimum. Did anybody else read it that way?

You misunderstood the article. A commerical can be had at 250 hrs. which is the minimum time (or certificate) allowed to hold a 121 FO spot. The proposal states that you can still acquire the commerical at 250 but there would be a minimum amount of time (800 hrs.) before you could apply and be hired by an airline. It's a hiring minimum - not a certification minimum.

Perhaps college might've fortified your reading comprehension.

 

[ualdriver]

You and Kalifornia just can't stomach the idea an 'uneducated' cretin like me is just as professional and skilled as you are. You're also pretty defensive about it. I think I know why. Everything you believed about Riddle has just been proven WRONG. I'm living proof the $100K you dropped to learn about aeroscience was unnecessary. That's gotta sting. Plus, it's disheartening having the riff-raff hanging around the country club. I get that.

No, actually you don't "get that." You have NO IDEA how much I spent to go to ERAU. Not a clue. And the fact that you threw 100K out there shows me how far off base you are. So actually, you're the one being proven WRONG, along with all those other ridiculous comments you made about me. You don't even know me. And if you and your buddies think that young people who attend aeronautical universities (whether you think they're worth the 100K or not) and spend 4 years of their lives getting a very technical degree learn *NOTHING* that makes them a better professional pilot, I just don't know what to say.

Further, I never said you have to have a college education to become a pilot. Personally, I think it would be foolish for a young person today, graduating from high school, to not get at least a Bachelor's Degree. Further, I wouldn't recommend ERAU now, either, simply because of how much it costs. In my opinion, there are skills that you learn while attending a good university/community college/whatever that transfer to life and one's profession. Again, if one doesn't "get that," and dismisses that out of hand, then what do you say?

 

[1x1]

I thought this was a thread about new work rules or something.

 

[ualdriver]

So, a four year makes you a better pilot than an HS grad?

No, the fact that you have a "four year" does not make you a better pilot. The fact that you spend 4 years of your life, full time, learning about the topics I discussed above, makes one a better pilot. If one spent 4 years of their life on their own, studying the same exact material at home and does not obtain a degree at the end of their self-education, that would likely make them a better pilot as well.

But you and I aren't talking about the rare individual who would do that. We're talking about the "average" (in a statistical sense) pilot who chooses not to go to college and the "average" name brand aeronautical university college graduate. Again, if one were to compare the two, I suspect the "average" college graduate would have a broader, deeper knowledge of the skill sets our profession uses on a day to day basis. Just like I told caveman above, if you think an individual spends 4 years of his life, full time, in an aeronautical university and learns *NOTHING* that improves himself as a professional pilot, I just don't know what to tell you.

 

[ualdriver]

I thought this was a thread about new work rules or something.

This is Flightinfo.com. You should know better than that

 

[Tristar]

This is Flightinfo.com. You should know better than that

True, but we still haven't brought up gerbils...

 

[Tristar]

It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies.

We are in complete agreement on this point - and further I agree that a degree (from an aviation university or in aviation) should meet these same criteria.

I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry.

That's a selective understatement. It's a defacto requirement at virtually all majors, and many other carriers. It's hardly a "select few."

If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary.

Particularly if you enjoy starting over at the bottom of the industry and payscale every few years when the carrier you are working for folds. Odds are you aren't going to make $70-$100K per year, year in and year out in the non-skeds, second and third tier freight haulers, they are likely to go out of business, and then you're starting over from zero (sound familiar?) - made even more difficult with no degree. The debt from the loans from a real degree may not only help you get a job, more importantly it may help you get a job doing something you can actually make a living at (which often is NOT flying).

Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes.

What if memorizing limitations or red border items isn't important to them, or perhaps having an understanding of the FAR's. No lack of intelligence, just not important to them - they just want to get on with yanking and banking. It's a question of drive and discipline - if you don't possess a certain requisite amount you aren't going to fare well in aviation or life.

I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step.

{stepping back in time a few years...}
"I have seen too many non-degreed doctors reach a good career position with out a degree. My advice is go to read medical books part time and catch leeches, doctors get hired because they have a large jar of leeches. Having let a lot of blood and owning thick wooden implements to bite on while sawing off limbs moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step."

You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.

What did they do when their national went out of business? Again, no one is arguing that it's necessary to operate the aircraft - it's a question of personal development as well as industry enhancement.

I guess we are getting very politically correct and having an option different that someone else’s is not allowed. I continually see the “If you do not have college degree you are not as good as me” I can not accept that, I just too many people who I admire who do not have degrees.

I wasn't aware that you weren't being allowed to have your opinion - in fact the very presence of this segment of the thread testifies to the contrary. It has nothing to do with not being as "good as" anyone else - it's a question of what we want the industry to look like in the future.

Literacy was once the exception not the rule, shall we advocate that it's not necessary because many illiterate people have "reached good career positions," or because they are good people worthy of admiration? Hyperbole perhaps, but it points out the absurdity of the argument.

BTW aT JUS almost every pilot has a college degree, because everyone has them.

EXACTLY. Now - which ones are "stuck" at JUS because the "can't get hired anywhere else?"

 

[phishn@daves]

The military flies more than fighter jets! And they actually fly in actual IFR!!

Good point. I was speaking of him.

 

[Caveman]

No, actually you don't "get that." You have NO IDEA how much I spent to go to ERAU. Not a clue. And the fact that you threw 100K out there shows me how far off base you are. So actually, you're the one being proven WRONG, along with all those other ridiculous comments you made about me. You don't even know me. And if you and your buddies think that young people who attend aeronautical universities (whether you think they're worth the 100K or not) and spend 4 years of their lives getting a very technical degree learn *NOTHING* that makes them a better professional pilot, I just don't know what to say.

Further, I never said you have to have a college education to become a pilot. Personally, I think it would be foolish for a young person today, graduating from high school, to not get at least a Bachelor's Degree. Further, I wouldn't recommend ERAU now, either, simply because of how much it costs. In my opinion, there are skills that you learn while attending a good university/community college/whatever that transfer to life and one's profession. Again, if one doesn't "get that," and dismisses that out of hand, then what do you say?

Pot meet kettle. Go back and reread what you posted and tell me again who was the one that started posting crap about someone they don't even know. You did and Kalifornia did. I gave one example (me) of someone that made it to a major without a HS degree. It was you and Kalifornia that started the personal attacks. You reap what you sow pal.

I stand by my statement. You (or Daddy) paid way more than was necessary to learn how to fly at Riddle. I know it, everybody that isn't a Riddle grad knows it and you do too. There's no way you'll convince me that attending Riddle made you a more well rounded person and improved your liberal arts education. It's a technical school all about airplanes and it's attended primarily by white middle class young men. Where's the cultural diversity and liberal arts exposure in that? That degree is worthless outside aviation. It did four things for you: It taught you how to fly; it allows you to check the college degree box on the employment app; it gives you a good alumni pool to network from; and it made your (or Daddy's) bank account significantly smaller. If you think for a moment anybody outside avaition will give a damn about the wonderful and diverse education you got at Riddle you are delusional.