Deal reached on new pilot hours

[OrionFE]

I was airline and went fractional. At the airline I was CA for 4 yrs. FO for 3. Interviewed and was sim partners with an Air Force Training CA. He was the worst pilot I have ever shared a sim with.

1. He has almost zero instrument time (they do not fly in wx.)

2. Zero glass time ( I understand that)

3. Cannot hand fly in the clouds.

I can give you his name and number if you are ex AF and do not believe me.

Problem is........We (CIV) do not "plan" the trip for 12 hours the day before. We go out and fly as long as it it safe. We (civ) have the experience to fly in wx planned and forecast and most times beyond that.

Please don't play the Mil. vs. Civ card, because there is no comparison when you are flying for an airline.

I cannot fly a fighter jet. I would love to. But have not been through that training program.

I'm sure most Mil. guy's make it through just fine, but this one was just not working out in the "real" world.

The military flies more than fighter jets! And they actually fly in actual IFR!!

 

[pilotyip]

years

You can "educate" a monkey. That doesn't mean it can successfully operate a door knob.

SWA no degree 2008 JB non degree 2006

 

[CX880]

You can "educate" a monkey. That doesn't mean it can successfully operate a door knob.

You're missing the point. The degree has nothing to do with operating the airplane, or safety. It has everything to do with the quality of the individual at the controls, for the company, for the passengers as well as the poor guy that has to sit next to them for 4 days.

Thankfully most major airlines like UPS have psycho tests you have to pass but you still need a degree to take that test!

 

[acpilot]

You're missing the point. The degree has nothing to do with operating the airplane, or safety. It has everything to do with the quality of the individual at the controls, for the company, for the passengers as well as the poor guy that has to sit next to them for 4 days.

Thankfully most major airlines like UPS have psycho tests you have to pass but you still need a degree to take that test!

No, I get it. Generally speaking, you may be right. Still, to operate a plane SAFELY and EFFICIENTLY, one does not need a 4-year. One of the most knowledgeable pilots I've hired was a HS grad. The weakest? An airline furlough with many thousands of hours.

I wouldn't mind if a degree became a requirement. The more stringent the requirements the better. It would place me in a better position to get a job. I'm all for the psycho tests, too!

 

[bizicmo]

completion of a military flight training program shows the same, Amry does not require a degree, completion of a two-year radiation technican at teh two-year jr college, qualifiy as a Nuc Power plant operator in the Sunmarien. These are all tests of one ability to shows the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period.

I guess i don't get what your getting at? If i sit through 4th grade i qualify for 5th grade and if i sit through 7th grade i qualify for 8th grade. If i go to college and get a degree i qualify for a better job. what are you arguing, that we should just drop all educational requirements of any kind if you just happen to know the right people, you get whatever job those people can refer you to?

 

[trainer8]

At SWA, AT, & JB to name a few, left seats are filled with many pilots who do not have a college degree. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Let’s go with a better standard, you must write an ACT of 27 or an SAT of 1250 to get your ATP. That would be better test of intelligence than a college degree.

Are you kidding me? That's your threshold of hiring? I've had a total geek in the right seat who graduated from ER. Very smart guy, but had very poor CRM skills and was a poor decision maker with poor command authority. He did eventually upgrade (50 hours of OE) and has since had 3 "incidents" with the company he presently works for. I'll take a "Bob Hoover" GA pilot type (who would never be hired based on your qualifications) with good people and stick and rudder skills over a exam taker any day.

Intelligence is more than a grade, my friend.

 

[pilotyip]

I guess i don't get what yo...........ople, you get whatever job those people can refer you to?

not at all, I just saying a 4 yr degree is only one way to demonstrate your ability. On Education: I will be the first to agree with the premise that you must have an education in order to find a decent job. There are many ways to get an education besides Full Time College. Most college grads could not complete the enlisted Navy Nuc Power Plant operator training. That is because anyone can get into a college, it is a much more difficult hurtle to get into Nuc Power. BTW serious thread drift, from hours, to mil vs civ, to college degree vs non-degreed.

Intelligence is more than a grade, my friend.

couldn't agree more, we are on the same page

 

[Caveman]

You lost all rational decision making on your part when you stated in these forums you thought high school drop outs can fly professionally just fine. You are a demon to aviation safety.

I guess I should turn in my ATP because I only finished the 10th grade. I finally got a GED so I could reenlist in the Marine Corps. I didn't have to do anything for it. I just showed up at the base education center and 20 minutes later I had a GED.

Over the years I did take a grand total of 5 classes from various community colleges on base. They were tough courses too: Motorcycle Maintenance, American History 101, Algebra 101, Geology 101 and a basic computer programming course (I don't even remember what it was). Those 5 classes (took me 13 years) plus my pencil whipped GED and credit for military schools allowed me to convince a community college to give me a basic AA degree. Frankly, it's a joke but it was enough to check the box.

I hate to burst your bubble but I made it to a major airline with essentially a tenth grade education and 5 random and unrelated college classes.

BTW, unless I misunderstood the article I got the impression the 800 hour requirement was to get a Commercial certificate. It wasn't a mandated hiring minimum. Did anybody else read it that way?

 

[pilotyip]

My hero

I guess I should turn in my ATP because I only finished the 10th grade. I finally got a GED so I could reenlist in the Marine Corps. I didn't have to do anything for it. I just showed up at the base education center and 20 minutes later I had a GED.

Over the years I did take a grand total of 5 classes from various community colleges on base. They were tough courses too: Motorcycle Maintenance, American History 101, Algebra 101, Geology 101 and a basic computer programming course (I don't even remember what it was). Those 5 classes (took me 13 years) plus my pencil whipped GED and credit for military schools allowed me to convince a community college to give me a basic AA degree. Frankly, it's a joke but it was enough to check the box.

I hate to burst your bubble but I made it to a major airline with essentially a tenth grade education and 5 random and unrelated college classes.

BTW, unless I misunderstood the article I got the impression the 800 hour requirement was to get a Commercial certificate. It wasn't a mandated hiring minimum. Did anybody else read it that way?

You are a guy I would love to share a beer with, you are the man, Good for you.

 

[trainer8]

BTW, unless I misunderstood the article I got the impression the 800 hour requirement was to get a Commercial certificate. It wasn't a mandated hiring minimum. Did anybody else read it that way?

True. Current 250 min for the Commercial Certificate. In the dark ages, Part 141 schools were 190 hours...still think that is current. This would up it to 800 hours. I also thought this has to go through the NPRM process, too.