DCI - 100, 50-Seaters and All Turboprops To Go.

[Ridgeback]

With this STC case, it seems even the Saabs can't make a profit sometimes. And, nobody else is going to challenge us on the 53nm route.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Are you kidding...Please read all the news releases!! As Delta has been pulling Mesaba out of STC, PAH, EAU...ect. United has been backfilling them with SkyWest out of ORD. It's not that Delta can't make money with the Saabs (see the 11 EAS cities to be served from Memphis before Delata pulled the plug...Federal guarenteed dollars) it's that they for some reason don't want to serve markets with turboprops...see RA's statment on all SF3's gone in 2-3 years. I understand that Delta may frown upon turboprops, but guarenteed dollars??

Too me it looks like the airlines are getting back to buisness as usual. SWA, UNITED, AA, and as of today CO is all going after market share. AA orders 25 RJ's for Eagle, oh and look where they are headed, ALL THE MIDWEST CITIES DELTA PULLED CAPACITY OUT OF! United Backfilling all the EAS cities Delta is pulling Mesaba out of. SWA anounces over 100 new daily departuers, mainly from Florida...Oh wait RA is still cutting capicity, parking airplanes. Expalin the wisdom too me?

 

[10nCLR]

A friend in St Cloud, MN said Delta just announced no more MSP-STC service as of Dec 31st. Slowly those routes are going away, just like our old Montana mainline service from SLC. Trying to see my sister in BIL has gotten a lot tougher since the RJ explosion of the early 2000s. It's time for that to stop and reverse course.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Same thing with BZN. They took away the SLC late morning/noon Mainline turn and the RON and added the crj7. Flights were always full during the summer but most pax were connecting from ATL-SLC-BZN, so they just got rid of the SLC leg and flew directly ATL-BZN during the peak season, then left the scraps for OO Crj.

 

[SSDD]

I remember not too long ago, a major that decided that they could be an all jet airline and got rid of their wholly owned turboprops, only to have to replace them a few years later with a number of progressively worse contractors

 

[General Lee]

Who is Fred Greed? Was he on the DAL MEC?

Fred "Greed" was Fred Reid, our President at Delta at the time. He thought businessmen wanted "frequency", and parked a lot of the mainline birds and then added 50 seat RJs. Fred then left DL to go start Virgin America, where he DID NOT add any 50 seaters. I guess he learned his lesson while watching Delta go down the toilet. Richard Anderson is now trying to clean up Fred's mess.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Are you kidding...Please read all the news releases!! As Delta has been pulling Mesaba out of STC, PAH, EAU...ect. United has been backfilling them with SkyWest out of ORD. It's not that Delta can't make money with the Saabs (see the 11 EAS cities to be served from Memphis before Delata pulled the plug...Federal guarenteed dollars) it's that they for some reason don't want to serve markets with turboprops...see RA's statment on all SF3's gone in 2-3 years. I understand that Delta may frown upon turboprops, but guarenteed dollars??

Too me it looks like the airlines are getting back to buisness as usual. SWA, UNITED, AA, and as of today CO is all going after market share. AA orders 25 RJ's for Eagle, oh and look where they are headed, ALL THE MIDWEST CITIES DELTA PULLED CAPACITY OUT OF! United Backfilling all the EAS cities Delta is pulling Mesaba out of. SWA anounces over 100 new daily departuers, mainly from Florida...Oh wait RA is still cutting capicity, parking airplanes. Expalin the wisdom too me?

Southwest has NO RJs. Airtan flies ZERO RJs. Jetblue flies ZERO RJs. The only airline with RJs that is doing well is Alaska. All the Majors are having trouble thanks to the ridiculous contract agreements that were signed when the Majors were failing a few years ago to a worse degree. We were stuck paying higher gas for RJs that were losing us money, and the regionals had a guaranteed profit regardless, even when gas spiked at $147 a barrel. Do you remember when that happened? What is your stance on that? Let me guess---a contract is a contract. Well, time to pay the piper. And with new hiring rules coming from the FAA, regionals will shrink even more, since eleigible pilots will be harder to find, driving up costs along the way. As far as EAS routes go, well, Great Lakes and Mesa will have a bonanza. To the smaller cities we need to get rid of the 8 RJ flights we have a day to a hub, and replace it with 3 DC9s (1 morning, 1 afternoon, and 1 evening flight). Sounds like a plan.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Same thing with BZN. They took away the SLC late morning/noon Mainline turn and the RON and added the crj7. Flights were always full during the summer but most pax were connecting from ATL-SLC-BZN, so they just got rid of the SLC leg and flew directly ATL-BZN during the peak season, then left the scraps for OO Crj.

Some of that will hopefully be changing. In the Summertime NWA has had A319s flying from MSP to BZN, GTF, FCA, and BIL, and then back to MSP. Well, we will add an A320/319 base in SLC early next year, and hopefully there will be flights to all of those cities from MSP, and then onto SLC. There is no excuse having just RJs to those cities in the Summertime.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[erikgigem]

RAH is a standalone competitor. Never were before. Never competed head to head for United or Delta or US Airways passengers. Now they are. However way you want to spin it, Major Partners are not happy about money coming out of their pocket to support Frontier or Midwest or whatever.
Trojan

There are many things that the Majors are unhappy about. I think they would be more concerned about their regional partners..

(a) crashing and killing their passengers (do we need to rehash the poor ADM skills by several regional pilots?)
(b) embarrassing the major airline by incompetent decisions (sleeping at the controls, drunk FA or crews on overnights, etc)
(c) undependable service (low DOT completion factor)
(d) untimely service (low DOT D+0, A+0, A+14).

From AP/Reuters sources and DOT sources, the public clearly knows what track record each regionals has. Certainly no major airline should reward any regional airline company that can't maintain a safe and reliable operation.

And since we are pilots, SAFETY and RELIABILITY is our major priority, not trying to pretend that we are calling the shots out our respective airlines (or for Delta).

 

[USCtrojan]

There are many things that the Majors are unhappy about. I think they would be more concerned about their regional partners..

(a) crashing and killing their passengers (do we need to rehash the poor ADM skills by several regional pilots?)
(b) embarrassing the major airline by incompetent decisions (sleeping at the controls, drunk FA or crews on overnights, etc)
(c) undependable service (low DOT completion factor)
(d) untimely service (low DOT D+0, A+0, A+14).

From AP/Reuters sources and DOT sources, the public clearly knows what track record each regionals has. Certainly no major airline should reward any regional airline company that can't maintain a safe and reliable operation.

more concerned about is.... Cheap. If they were worried about a safety record, one Regional would've been gone long ago. What they should be concerned about and what they actually are concerned about are 2 different things entirely. Cheap. Delta, United and anyone else will not want to financially support a competitor. I don't care what kind of quality you provide.

Trojan

 

[regionaltard]

All I know is that whatever RAH gets paid, they are still able to pay the employees without concessions

If a copilot in a 100 seat jet making 35 dollars an hour isn't a concession then I don't know what is.

 

[Willy21]

The big battle on the horizon is that of operational control. There is a growing group of people that want a Delta/United/American/ect. ticket to be flown by the company that sold it. It comes down to who holds the ultimate responsibility when metal gets bent.

This battle is being fought on the corporate/135 side of the house right now. When they get done with that you will see Mr. Babbit and his "one level of safety for all" move over and set up camp in the 121 world.

My guess is maybe Mr. Anderson sees this as a possibility and wants to get a head start.

 

[G2T]

(b) embarrassing the major airline by incompetent decisions (sleeping at the controls, drunk FA or crews on overnights, etc)
(c) undependable service (low DOT completion factor)
(d) untimely service (low DOT D+0, A+0, A+14).

Ha! Thanks for the laugh. Have you seen the news this week?????? (NWA in MSP, Delta and the taxiway)

 

[andyd]

It would seem on the surface to most RJ pilot's long term career goals and progression that parking all of the DCI turbo props and 100 of the 50 seaters is a GOOD think. Why are most of you bashing DAL for this plan? The more RJ's there are flying around = FEWER mainline jobs for ya'll to move up to! I can tell you from personal experience that nearly to a man/woman at DAL we are FED UP with scope erosion and will hold the line on 76 seat scope rules. Lee Moaks days are numbered at DALMEC, we may have to send him to National Alpa to get rid of him, but he is not long for this world at DALMEC. He only saving grace and way to retain his job on the MEC here at DAL is to retain scope and not continually weaken it and retreat from it. I say that with baited breath as his track record on scope is abhorrant.

When I was at 9E and we were getting RJ's by the bucket loads weekly, I kept telling myself as well as anyone who would listen: "This in NOT good, we are NOW flying our future mainline jobs!" and whenever I ran accross anyone who was salivating at the prospect of flying a 70 seater for 50 seat wages....well that's just plain stupid.

I HOPE we do park some RJ's......and HIRE a 1000 guys/gals to fly some MD90's we have our eye's on, as well as the next gen RJ...whether it's the "C" series or the Emb195...doesn't matter.

 

[Monster Buck]

It would seem on the surface to most RJ pilot's long term career goals and progression that parking all of the DCI turbo props and 100 of the 50 seaters is a GOOD think. Why are most of you bashing DAL for this plan? The more RJ's there are flying around = FEWER mainline jobs for ya'll to move up to! I can tell you from personal experience that nearly to a man/woman at DAL we are FED UP with scope erosion and will hold the line on 76 seat scope rules. Lee Moaks days are numbered at DALMEC, we may have to send him to National Alpa to get rid of him, but he is not long for this world at DALMEC. He only saving grace and way to retain his job on the MEC here at DAL is to retain scope and not continually weaken it and retreat from it. I say that with baited breath as his track record on scope is abhorrant.

When I was at 9E and we were getting RJ's by the bucket loads weekly, I kept telling myself as well as anyone who would listen: "This in NOT good, we are NOW flying our future mainline jobs!" and whenever I ran accross anyone who was salivating at the prospect of flying a 70 seater for 50 seat wages....well that's just plain stupid.

I HOPE we do park some RJ's......and HIRE a 1000 guys/gals to fly some MD90's we have our eye's on, as well as the next gen RJ...whether it's the "C" series or the Emb195...doesn't matter.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[lookin4better]

+1...

Some people on the bottom of senority lists at regionals may lose jobs in the short term, but the flying could move to where it should be and mainline jobs created..... fair trade off.

Heck, a person on the bottom or a regional can make up that paycheck with a minimum wage job anyway. In the end, parking them is a GREAT thing. People can adapt and it will be good for them in the long run.

Park em!

 

[Captain Morgan]

It would seem on the surface to most RJ pilot's long term career goals and progression that parking all of the DCI turbo props and 100 of the 50 seaters is a GOOD think. Why are most of you bashing DAL for this plan? The more RJ's there are flying around = FEWER mainline jobs for ya'll to move up to! I can tell you from personal experience that nearly to a man/woman at DAL we are FED UP with scope erosion and will hold the line on 76 seat scope rules. Lee Moaks days are numbered at DALMEC, we may have to send him to National Alpa to get rid of him, but he is not long for this world at DALMEC. He only saving grace and way to retain his job on the MEC here at DAL is to retain scope and not continually weaken it and retreat from it. I say that with baited breath as his track record on scope is abhorrant.

When I was at 9E and we were getting RJ's by the bucket loads weekly, I kept telling myself as well as anyone who would listen: "This in NOT good, we are NOW flying our future mainline jobs!" and whenever I ran accross anyone who was salivating at the prospect of flying a 70 seater for 50 seat wages....well that's just plain stupid.

I HOPE we do park some RJ's......and HIRE a 1000 guys/gals to fly some MD90's we have our eye's on, as well as the next gen RJ...whether it's the "C" series or the Emb195...doesn't matter.

It's not about RAH, 9E, OO, OH, or any of the other carriers. It's about what this man/woman said.

 

[JumpersAway]

It would seem on the surface to most RJ pilot's long term career goals and progression that parking all of the DCI turbo props and 100 of the 50 seaters is a GOOD think. Why are most of you bashing DAL for this plan? The more RJ's there are flying around = FEWER mainline jobs for ya'll to move up to! I can tell you from personal experience that nearly to a man/woman at DAL we are FED UP with scope erosion and will hold the line on 76 seat scope rules. Lee Moaks days are numbered at DALMEC, we may have to send him to National Alpa to get rid of him, but he is not long for this world at DALMEC. He only saving grace and way to retain his job on the MEC here at DAL is to retain scope and not continually weaken it and retreat from it. I say that with baited breath as his track record on scope is abhorrant.

When I was at 9E and we were getting RJ's by the bucket loads weekly, I kept telling myself as well as anyone who would listen: "This in NOT good, we are NOW flying our future mainline jobs!" and whenever I ran accross anyone who was salivating at the prospect of flying a 70 seater for 50 seat wages....well that's just plain stupid.

I HOPE we do park some RJ's......and HIRE a 1000 guys/gals to fly some MD90's we have our eye's on, as well as the next gen RJ...whether it's the "C" series or the Emb195...doesn't matter.

So you want to send the person responsible for the policies created and enforced at a single airline MEC level all the way to the National level- when you're not happy with the performers local policies?????? I wouldn't want to give him any more control than he has now. After watching all that has happened with the scope issues at DAL, I wouldn't vote for him- and I'm at a regional! If the DAL pilot group was truly irritated with him, they'd recall his @$$ and cast him to the wolves......

The more things change, the more they stay the same. No change in scope policy provides no career progression, stability, or money for ANYONE- regional or mainline. We're too busy judging our collegues to handle petty stuff............. like PAY and work rules!

 

[Ridgeback]

All the Majors are having trouble thanks to the ridiculous contract agreements that were signed when the Majors were failing a few years ago to a worse degree. We were stuck paying higher gas for RJs that were losing us money, and the regionals had a guaranteed profit regardless, even when gas spiked at $147 a barrel. Do you remember when that happened? What is your stance on that? Let me guess---a contract is a contract.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Please enlighten me on the ridiculous contracts Delta has with Mesaba, Compass, and Comair? Could yoiu please give me the guaanteed profit figure (us dollars will be fine) that Mesaba, Compass, Comair made off of Delta with the contract you are referring to? If Delta was paying for the gas then what "higher" gas price were they paying...did they hedge for mainline and regionals seperatly?

Also I'd be carful about wishing the rj's gone. I mean really, who has subsidised the "major" airline pilot pay the past 20 years? I'll give you a hint, it's those 17.00 an hour f/o's that have been working under your so called ridiculous contracts for the last 20 years. Speaking of which seeing's your so enlightened on the economics side of the airline buisness. If the contracts with the regional partners were so bad then why didn't they get out of them during anytime in the last 20 years...when Comair took their first rj.

The reason regionals, and rj's exsist is easy. They make money PERIOD. If they did not Delta, like any other buisness would have gotten rid of the "cost centers."

I'm not a fan of the rj, but your arguments are sometimes a bit hypocritical. The Rj's, turboprops, have a place, a place in which your dc can't be successful.

Also to disprove your point about a dc9 morning noon and night. Delta already has a place like that. it's called Memphis. Last time I was through there I saw a bunch more rj's than anything else. According to you it should be easy for Delta to just replace all that lift with a dc9 or bigger. The dc9 I took to ORD a few nights ago from Memphis with 40 people on probable made a whole lot more money that a CRJ9 or EMB175...DO you agree?

 

[79%N1]

Who ever said that less RJ's mean more mainline jobs? I just don't get that logic. Maybe management want less RJ's, and also less mainline jets. That's lose - lose. I'm not sure I ever see management at XYZ airline replacing an RJ with a 737 or MD80, just so we can all make more money and grasp the golden ring at the mainline. It's a nice thought, but does not hold logic. And to think that managements will just place RJ's at mainline at 50%-75% more pay is just plain lunacy.

 

[General Lee]

Please enlighten me on the ridiculous contracts Delta has with Mesaba, Compass, and Comair? Could yoiu please give me the guaanteed profit figure (us dollars will be fine) that Mesaba, Compass, Comair made off of Delta with the contract you are referring to? If Delta was paying for the gas then what "higher" gas price were they paying...did they hedge for mainline and regionals seperatly?

Also I'd be carful about wishing the rj's gone. I mean really, who has subsidised the "major" airline pilot pay the past 20 years? I'll give you a hint, it's those 17.00 an hour f/o's that have been working under your so called ridiculous contracts for the last 20 years. Speaking of which seeing's your so enlightened on the economics side of the airline buisness. If the contracts with the regional partners were so bad then why didn't they get out of them during anytime in the last 20 years...when Comair took their first rj.

The reason regionals, and rj's exsist is easy. They make money PERIOD. If they did not Delta, like any other buisness would have gotten rid of the "cost centers."

I'm not a fan of the rj, but your arguments are sometimes a bit hypocritical. The Rj's, turboprops, have a place, a place in which your dc can't be successful.

Also to disprove your point about a dc9 morning noon and night. Delta already has a place like that. it's called Memphis. Last time I was through there I saw a bunch more rj's than anything else. According to you it should be easy for Delta to just replace all that lift with a dc9 or bigger. The dc9 I took to ORD a few nights ago from Memphis with 40 people on probable made a whole lot more money that a CRJ9 or EMB175...DO you agree?

Not all of the DCI bunch have SWEET deals. If you were included in our BK, (Mesaba and Comair) then you got the shaft too. Comair kinda deserved it anyway for being a bunch of jerks, so I don't feel as sad for those hosehounds. SkyWest, Mesa, and Republic have done very well off of a sick Delta. Those days are going to go away, though. The deals often included mainline paying for the gas, and a guaranteed profit for the regionals. If you did not know about this, then you had your head up your arse. Why were the Regionals profitable and every Major not profitable? The answer is that we were paying for the extra expensive gas. Why didn't we get out of those contracts you ask when Comair got the first RJ? Gas wasn't expensive back then. It was VERY cheap in the late 90s. But, a contract is a contract, and the guys who signed those contracts left DL with big bucks, leaving us to flounder with ridiculous terms in the past few years. That will change while Richard Anderson is incharge, and that should make you worried.

RJs USED to make money. Now, they are a hinderance, and most business people avoid them like the plague. When DL puts 4 RJs a day to Bloomington, IL vs Airtran and their 717s, we lose money. Same in super fun Flint, and Moline, etc. After our combining of certificates, we will put DC9s into ATL and actually fight Airtran with a like sized aircraft to many of those cities, and not lose the revenue battle. Richard Anderson doesn't agree with your assumption that RJs make money I guess, and he is parking a bunch more. Maybe you should email him and give him your opinion. He might get a laugh.

As far as your DC9 flight to ORD a few nights ago, we don't know if that is common or not to be that empty, and if it is common it may not last long. If you go on that flight regularly, please give us exact passenger counts and we'll go from there. Also, that DC9 may be used the next morning for a fairly full flight to MSP or DTW, so it could be more of a positioning flight. You knew that, right?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General, hopefully you get hit by a semi soon or better yet your entire family!!!!!!! Retard!! FO!!! You landed on M taxiway!! I knew that was you!!! You want to slam Mesaba you better be up to it P@@ssy!!!! We have pretty thick skin after all your BS!!

Hit by a semi? What? Come on now hoser, you sound drunk. And NO, I was not on that Rio flight. I just came back today from a great Germany trip. The food was fantastic. Have a great one.

Also, you have a better chance of moving back into your parent's house than I do. Enjoy that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Who ever said that less RJ's mean more mainline jobs? I just don't get that logic. Maybe management want less RJ's, and also less mainline jets. That's lose - lose. I'm not sure I ever see management at XYZ airline replacing an RJ with a 737 or MD80, just so we can all make more money and grasp the golden ring at the mainline. It's a nice thought, but does not hold logic. And to think that managements will just place RJ's at mainline at 50%-75% more pay is just plain lunacy.

You will see more RJs replaced in ATL with DC9s after our certificates are merged. We are going to place them on routes that compete directly with Airtran 717s. A 50 seater cannot compete with a 717. Those 50 seaters will either get parked or go to work at United. Sounds great.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[79%N1]

I'm all for the semi. Oh and Private Wee, just why is it that Comair 'kind of deserves it'? Just checking.

 

[General Lee]

General, hopefully you get hit by a semi soon or better yet your entire family!!!!!!! Retard!! FO!!! You landed on M taxiway!! I knew that was you!!! You want to slam Mesaba you better be up to it P@@ssy!!!! We have pretty thick skin after all your BS!! Delta cancels all overseas flights do to swine flu epidemic. That would be the most awesome headline ever!!! Mesaba would still fly the 53 nm routes. Getting hit by a train would be fine too. I heard you have never been in a cockpit and never left your parents house. Is that true???? Your that kid in the Brad Paisley song>>

This is actually a funny post. Must be boring in LaCrosse tonight! At least you know Pierre will be "funner" for you tomorrow night. Say hi to your toothless best friend there.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[budd]

Hit by a semi? What? Come on now hoser, you sound drunk. And NO, I was not on that Rio flight. I just came back today from a great Germany trip. The food was fantastic. Have a great one.

Also, you have a better chance of moving back into your parent's house than I do. Enjoy that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't drink. If I drank I would have 13000+ post on FI!!!!

 

[General Lee]

I'm all for the semi. Oh and Private Wee, just why is it that Comair 'kind of deserves it'? Just checking.

Ask Ford and company. (including Lawson) That kind of attitude is remembered by all.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[budd]

Hit by a semi? What? Come on now hoser, you sound drunk. And NO, I was not on that Rio flight. I just came back today from a great Germany trip. The food was fantastic. Have a great one.

Also, you have a better chance of moving back into your parent's house than I do. Enjoy that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

My parents are dead and were great Americans. You belong in that Bay in Cuba because you hate Americans!!! IF we get your real name you will have some troubles with customs and TSA!!! Call MGMT with your concerns you POS!! We are feeding our families and flying for Mesaba and damn happy I am not sitting next to you!! Call RA with your concerns and quit calling everyone that doesn't bow to you jerks!!! You probably treat those Germans real nice, is that where your terrorist cell is??? Why do you hate all of us??? F@@cking IDIOT!!!!!!!! Your the next BUD GUY song.. "So much better online guy". Can't wait>

 

[79%N1]

My parents are dead and were great Americans. You belong in that Bay in Cuba because you hate Americans!!! IF we get your real name you will have some troubles with customs and TSA!!! Call MGMT with your concerns you POS!! We are feeding our families and flying for Mesaba and damn happy I am not sitting next to you!! Call RA with your concerns and quit calling everyone that doesn't bow to you jerks!!! You probably treat those Germans real nice, is that where your terrorist cell is??? Why do you hate all of us??? F@@cking IDIOT!!!!!!!! Your the next BUD GUY song.. "So much better online guy". Can't wait>

I like this guy!!! Welcome aboard.

 

[budd]

I like this guy!!! Welcome aboard.

Thanks I think General is one of RA's bitches trying to stir the pot and has never been on an airplane. He has never left his apartment in Dunwoody. Am I close there General. Mr. "So much better online guy" Take a deep breath and think about what RA would want you to say. Calm down. Ok NOW!!!!

 

[budd]

Fred "Greed" was Fred Reid, our President at Delta at the time. He thought businessmen wanted "frequency", and parked a lot of the mainline birds and then added 50 seat RJs. Fred then left DL to go start Virgin America, where he DID NOT add any 50 seaters. I guess he learned his lesson while watching Delta go down the toilet. Richard Anderson is now trying to clean up Fred's mess.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Found this post what did I tell you!!! There you go. In 25 years I have never seen or talked to a POS like this and you all know there have been a few but nothing like this. General reminds me of those penny stock scams on pink sheet stocks.

 

[COOPERVANE]

........................................................Does Feta cheese really come from goats?