DALPA returning to table a positive!

[InclusiveScope]

Associated Press
Delta CEO Says Pilots' Gesture a Positive
Friday June 18, 5:02 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Delta CEO Gerald Grinstein Calls Pilots' Consideration of Renewing Wage Cut Talks 'Positive Sign'

ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines chief executive Gerald Grinstein said Friday pilots' willingness to renew wage cut talks is a 'positive sign' the financially struggling company can get the concessions it needs to avoid bankruptcy.

[size=-2]ADVERTISEMENT[/size]on error resume nextplugin=(IsObject(CreateObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash.5"))) Grinstein told The Associated Press no new negotiation sessions have been scheduled, but he is optimistic they will take place soon given a pilots' union memo this week alluding to the possibility.

"I think the statement they made is a sign they realize how serious the situation is," Grinstein said.

Speaking in an interview at the Atlanta-based company's 75th anniversary celebration, Grinstein said the nation's third-largest airline is working hard to stave off bankruptcy.

"It's the last choice," he said. "It's not part of something you want to do. You hope everyone can take a sensible course and we avoid it."

On Thursday, Delta's pilots union said in a memo that it has instructed its negotiating committee to seek new talks with the carrier's management to break an impasse on wage concessions.

"As has been reported, Delta is under considerable pressure due to increasing fuel costs and declining yields," the Air Line Pilots Association told its members.

The two sides have not had formal negotiations since late January.

Delta is seeking a 30 percent wage cut, while pilots are offering 9 percent and to forego a 4.5 percent raise they received in May. Delta pilots make between $100,000 and $300,000 a year, according to the airline.

Union leaders said in the memo that any deal will depend on a "comprehensive financial restructuring plan to include all of Delta's other stakeholders."

Grinstein would not say Friday whether Delta would be willing to compromise on its position to get a deal done. But, he said he believes the airline will pull through its current financial crisis.

"This is an industry that has gone through a whole lot of cycles," Grinstein said. "This company is the one that will be able to make it through."

Delta has lost more than $3 billion and laid off 16,000 employees in the last three years. Analysts believe it has six to nine more months to get a deal with pilots or face bankruptcy.

Shares of Delta closed up 37 cents, or 6.3 percent, at $6.24 in trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

Delta Air Lines: www.delta.com

 

[General Lee]

Absolutely true. Most of us think that is a good thing, and hopefully there will be an agreement that is fair and one that can help the company. We all KNEW that the 14% original offer was just that--an original offer. You don't go into a car dealership and take the first offer, right? But, the company actually wouldn't come back initially--and we had an open offer to start negotiating again. I have also heard that Dalpa, not really the company, has requested talks with some of the creditors to enlist their help also---which is a must. The creditors have a lot to lose also. Having only pilot cost cuts will not solve the full problem--and we need to address the debt problem also. If we do get a deal, the capital markets will reopen almost over night (like at AA), and refinancing will begin after a likely bond rating increase.... I think it will happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

Absolutely true. Most of us think that is a good thing, and hopefully there will be an agreement that is fair and one that can help the company.

“Max pay to the last day Baby.”

We all KNEW that the 14% original offer was just that--an original offer. You don't go into a car dealership and take the first offer, right? But, the company actually wouldn't come back initially--and we had an open offer to start negotiating again.

“Max pay to the last day Baby”

I have also heard that Dalpa, not really the company, has requested talks with some of the creditors to enlist their help also---which is a must. The creditors have a lot to lose also.

“Max pay to the last day Baby”

Having only pilot cost cuts will not solve the full problem--and we need to address the debt problem also. If we do get a deal, the capital markets will reopen almost over night (like at AA), and refinancing will begin after a likely bond rating increase.... I think it will happen.

The last day is here GL. It looks like you are dealing with it.

 

[General Lee]

Dave,

Ok, what? No one here has stated "Full pay to the last day." No one. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, there is a method to this madness? If we would have capitulated early, then the creditors might not have chipped in, just delaying the problem. This is a problem for everyone. The last day for you and your 50 seat RJ growth may be close, but not for us. Our leadership is handling this very well, and we will succeed and the company will be fine. You and your RJDC friends are probably sweating it right now--especially after what Grinstein said about 50 seat RJs and flights over 2 hours. Take care--I gotta go fly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave,

Take care--I gotta go fly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Stay out of trouble dipwad.

The method to your madness is evident: "Max pay to the last day".

Drain DL until there aint nothin' left; then negotiate for the pittance that is left. The junior guys get nothing.

 

[NYRANGERS]

“Max pay to the last day Baby.”









“Max pay to the last day Baby”







“Max pay to the last day Baby”






The last day is here GL. It looks like you are dealing with it.

Typical a-hole. It's the continuous negative comments that come from many of the DCI bunch that make it obvious. As we go forward, there is no reason to try to work with your kind.

Oh and since you may be new to the airline biz, I think it's "full pay to the last day". Hope we won't have the pleasure of ever working together.

Man, I have to get off of this board. Good luck to most.

NYR

 

[DaveGriffin]

Typical a-hole. It's the continuous negative comments that come from many of the DCI bunch that make it obvious. As we go forward, there is no reason to try to work with your kind.

Oh and since you may be new to the airline biz, I think it's "full pay to the last day". Hope we won't have the pleasure of ever working together.

Man, I have to get off of this board. Good luck to most.

NYR

Hey Ranger;

Why not let Daddy GL stick up for himself? You were one of the al Qaeda apologists back in 2002 that was arguing against the US taking the fight to the bad guys. You were wrong then and you are wrong again now.

Adios bu## lick

 

[General Lee]

Dave,


I can't believe I checked this site one more time--I must be addicted. (atleast 285 Southbound isn't too bad right now----no way 85 South---I can make my duty in)

Ok, real quick. What? (again?) You obviously don't know much about negotiating. We have had an offer to negotiate for a long while here---and the Company hasn't taken us up on it. That is the truth---something you can't see at any time. We aren't trying to use up all of the cash, but if we gave meaningful concessions right off the bat---the creditors(who have the expensive leases and can cut them) would not do a thing to help. Look at UAL--they fly 747-400s now at 737 lease rates. AA got $175 million in concessions from creditors also---right after they got concessions from their people. That is what has to happen here too for us to survive---everyone needs to particpate. You need to read up on negotiating skills. You probably go into car dealerships and say--"I will take any deal you want to give me, hell---tack on an extra 10%." Dalpa will negotaite a fair deal or there will be no deal---and they know they need to give some pay back. Even Grinstein is optimistic. You, of course, are not. Whoop di do. Bye now.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave,

I can't believe I checked this site one more time--I must be addicted.

You are addicted GL… to BS.



You and your MEC reps are screwing up what little chance there is of salvaging what’s left of Delta. By waiting over 6 months to negotiate you have burned nearly $400 million. The guys at AirTran are doing great because they went to management immediately after 9/11 and cut a deal to protect the entire pilot workforce.



Who is better off today mister smart guy… Delta or AirTran???

 

[NYRANGERS]

Hey Ranger;

Why not let Daddy GL stick up for himself? You were one of the al Qaeda apologists back in 2002 that was arguing against the US taking the fight to the bad guys. You were wrong then and you are wrong again now.

Adios bu## lick

???????????????

Easy there old man. How mature we all are. F-you and al qaeda.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Company or DALPA?

But, the company actually wouldn't come back initially--and we had an open offer to start negotiating again. I have also heard that Dalpa, not really the company, has requested talks with some of the creditors to enlist their help also---which is a must.

If this is true, then why the press release stating:

Delta Air Lines chief executive Gerald Grinstein said Friday pilots' willingness to renew wage cut talks is a 'positive sign' the financially struggling company can get the concessions it needs to avoid bankruptcy.
On Thursday, Delta's pilots union said in a memo that it has instructed its negotiating committee to seek new talks with the carrier's management to break an impasse on wage concessions.

Why the DALPA meeting in the first place if it was always the company that would not negotiate? The company has always been ready to listen, but not negotiate, and I don't believe that GG will negotiate now. In two letters written to the employees by GG, he stated that he would provide the pilots with the MINIMUM required concessions and that there would be no negotiating.
Here is an exerpt of GG's letter:

It has been a year since Delta put its proposal on the table. Responses from ALPA to our requests for relief have fallen far short of what is needed to allow Delta to achieve a sustainable future. Unfortunately, Delta’s situation has become far worse in the year since we first presented our proposal, and that must now be reflected in our discussions with ALPA. The company's new proposal cannot be a bargaining position from which to negotiate down. It will represent the minimum savings amount that Delta must obtain from the pilots, however painful, if this company, and their jobs, are to survive.

Another to the AJC by Ed Bastain (Senior VP Finance) stated that the main issue was the pilots pay alone.

Here is an exerpt:
"However, the principle difference today between Delta's cost structure and that of other network carriers is Pilot costs. Denying this fact will only serve to create greater obstacles to our return to viability."

I know that DALPA is NOT responsible for Delta's problems and that they should only give back a fair amount, not give the whole cookie jar. But, by waiting so long, I think they have caused themselves more problems in regards to pay. In one of GG's letters and also hints at above, he stated that since DALPA did not accept the original deal, by waiting, he would have to ask for a significantly greater amount. Koolaid? Maybe, that is what the DALPA MEC is there to figure out. But, if the MEC is determined to not accept a "no negotion" deal, then I believe that GG will file immediately after DALPA's first refusal which is what GG really wants as it will be the easiest way to trash the current PWA. I do hope things work out great for the DALPA guys as I have many friends working there.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Ranger;
Even Tim knows what a d#ck you are. Please stay out of the thread.
Your pro-FM, al Qaeda sympathies reveal your real intentions for our society.

BTW;
I am not DCI.

 

[letthebigdogeat]

Thanks for pointing that out Dave. Because these days any constructive critisism and/or mature discussion is immediately blamed upon DCI and RJs just waiting to be torn apart by you know who.

One for all - all for one --- how about it mainline!!!! United we will stand, it's the only way we can all survive....

 

[NYRANGERS]

Ranger;
Even Tim knows what a d#ck you are. Please stay out of the thread.
Your pro-FM, al Qaeda sympathies reveal your real intentions for our society.

BTW;
I am not DCI.

If you are going to say such vile things about me, at least PM me and identifly yourself. You are crossing a line, but I would gladly accept an invite to speak with you that you have declined in a PM. Don't be such a COWARD.

PS. who is Tim?

At least give me the courtasy of talking to me or calling me so we can talk. Such accusations are vile and I found your e-mail on the ALPA site. Don't be a coward, and don't hide behind such a proud and noble symbol.

NYR

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Dave,

Ok, what? No one here has stated "Full pay to the last day." No one. Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, there is a method to this madness? If we would have capitulated early, then the creditors might not have chipped in, just delaying the problem. This is a problem for everyone. The last day for you and your 50 seat RJ growth may be close, but not for us. Our leadership is handling this very well, and we will succeed and the company will be fine. You and your RJDC friends are probably sweating it right now--especially after what Grinstein said about 50 seat RJs and flights over 2 hours. Take care--I gotta go fly.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Now wait just one cotton pickin minute. I had a Delta jumpseater the other day that said he fully expects "max pay to the last day". And, I have "heard of" several Delta pilots who have made the same claim.....


You know, kinda like that "DOH" stuff that you are soooo sure the Comair pilots insisted on...

Yes, I do believe the Delta pilots are insisting on "max pay to the last day" and are going to drive this company into liquidation......What a sorry lot.

 

[DLslug]

Take it easy boys...


Man, every time I come to find out a little of what happened this week, I run into these threads with all you guys just bashing each other.

Dave G...dued, can you just mello out. This is unbelievable. Take a break.

And to the others that do put some thought into their comments, nice job, I like reading those.

Now, I don't even remember what we are talking about...oh yea, pay cuts. I just side with GL, enough said.

All for now,

DLslug

 

[Heavy Set]

Dave,

You forgot your meds - you need to lighten up big time. As far as the statement "Max pay to the last day," most of my Delta buddies have no idea where that came from - they don't subscribe to that statement. Sure, there may be some hardliners out there, but they don't represent at least 75-80% of the mainline group. You will always have some hardliners who make themselves heard. Most of my Delta buddies are relieved that negotiations will take place and hopefully come to an equitable resolution - and I stress EQUITABLE. The pilots know that they will likely bare the brunt of the cost cuts, but there should be some fairness tied into it - I am not a negotiator so I don't know how it will be handled.

I wonder how the tone on this board would change if DCI wages were ALSO being reduced (let's say down to industry average - or a threat of bankruptcy)? Would the ASA and Comair guys change their pro-managment tones a bit? Interesting how things might change if YOU were also impacted...

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Dave,

You forgot your meds - you need to lighten up big time. As far as the statement "Max pay to the last day," most of my Delta buddies have no idea where that came from - they don't subscribe to that statement. Sure, there may be some hardliners out there, but they don't represent at least 75-80% of the mainline group. You will always have some hardliners who make themselves heard. Most of my Delta buddies are relieved that negotiations will take place and hopefully come to an equitable resolution - and I stress EQUITABLE. The pilots know that they will likely bare the brunt of the cost cuts, but there should be some fairness tied into it - I am not a negotiator so I don't know how it will be handled.

I wonder how the tone on this board would change if DCI wages were ALSO being reduced (let's say down to industry average - or a threat of bankruptcy)? Would the ASA and Comair guys change their pro-managment tones a bit? Interesting how things might change if YOU were also impacted...

"fairness" is a childish concept that most of us have outgrown since we were teenagers. You guys (average ALPA mainline member) don't give a sh#t about fairness and what's equitable so stop already with that line of crap. As for the lack of sympathy that is evident here from the regional folks, get over it! Talk to your wife or mother about it if you need a sympathetic ear. We ARE impacted by this which is exactly why we want to see this worked out not hear more tired rhetoric about fairness and raising the bar!

BTW - I'm not too concerned about my $60 an hour salary being reduced to $50 an hour or whatever it is that other company's pay their 5th year captains. I already have to work a second gig to make ends meet, did you before being furloughed?

 

[Heavy Set]

XREMFLYER,

Despite all of your tough talk, you know that you would do the same as the mainliners IF YOU WERE IN THEIR POSITION - you wouldn't just "give in" without understanding how DAL management would proceed (new strategic plan). You're right - "fairness" is all relative in the business world. But I am pretty sure you wouldn't just accept anything management threw at you.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Dave,

You forgot your meds - you need to lighten up big time. As far as the statement "Max pay to the last day," most of my Delta buddies have no idea where that came from - they don't subscribe to that statement. Sure, there may be some hardliners out there, but they don't represent at least 75-80% of the mainline group. You will always have some hardliners who make themselves heard. Most of my Delta buddies are relieved that negotiations will take place and hopefully come to an equitable resolution - and I stress EQUITABLE. The pilots know that they will likely bare the brunt of the cost cuts, but there should be some fairness tied into it - I am not a negotiator so I don't know how it will be handled.

I wonder how the tone on this board would change if DCI wages were ALSO being reduced (let's say down to industry average - or a threat of bankruptcy)? Would the ASA and Comair guys change their pro-managment tones a bit? Interesting how things might change if YOU were also impacted...

I'm not buying it. You all want "max pay to the last day".. It must be true. I had a jumpseater tell me, and several of our pilots have second cousins with friends of Delta pilots who say they have heard their friends cousins aunt from their brothers side say the same thing!

You people ought to be ashamed of your selves. When we start hiring again, we will welcome the UAL and AMR pilots with preferential hiring, but you Delta pilots should not expect any favors. LOL.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

XREMFLYER,

Despite all of your tough talk, you know that you would do the same as the mainliners IF YOU WERE IN THEIR POSITION - you wouldn't just "give in" without understanding how DAL management would proceed (new strategic plan). You're right - "fairness" is all relative in the business world. But I am pretty sure you wouldn't just accept anything management threw at you.

Sure I would and I wish them all the best in that. I have not once advocated bending over for management, just stop with the need for affirmation and sympathy already, it's embarrassing!

To paraphrase a certain demographic group in our country "It's a mainline thing, we wouldn't understand."

 

[Tim47SIP]

hevyset

First of all, what is your deffinition of EQUITABLE? Is it only give back enough to break even, make a profit, force others to give more? Just curious. Which leads me to the next statement.


I wonder how the tone on this board would change if DCI wages were ALSO being reduced (let's say down to industry average - or a threat of bankruptcy)? Would the ASA and Comair guys change their pro-managment tones a bit? Interesting how things might change if YOU were also impacted...

At ASA we are a few percentage points below industry average, and Comair is only a couple points above industry average. What would you have us give? 10% sound good? Of course that would put us well below industry average. Here is the deal, if DALPA has to go to 10% below industry average, then we should to. If DALPA stays well above industry average, then there is no reason to ask us to go below industry average to supliment your reduction in pay. Which leads me to a third question.

What will you guys do when GG lays down a reduction plan with no negotiating allowed. What if GG's plan is unacceptable to DALPA and is not equitable enough for them. DALPA will certainly get a raw deal if a BK judge is to decide your pay structure. I truely hope this goes EQUITABLE for you guys as I know you all have families and loved ones to take care of. I just don't think there will be a whole lot of negotiating going on. But you never know.

 

[Heavy Set]

Afellowaviator,

If you think all Delta pilots feel that way you are crazy. Yes, there probably are some old, fat, Southern-boy Delta pilots who advocate that I am sure. But many would just prefer stability (at least those who are within furlough range). Any Delta pilot who advocates that saying is probably at the pinnacle of the seniority list and he doesn't care too much about the future because he will be retiring in the next few years and he wants to max out his pension (if the pension fund isn't depleted or reduced). That's a radical viewpoint and I haven't heard it from my 6-7 friends at Delta - not one says that. They will be relieved when negotiations are consummated. Nobody likes to read the dire predictions in the newspapers everyday - but at the same time, nobody is willing to blindly accept management's first proposal - that's not a negotiation. Cuts will be viewed as an investment in Delta's future - a future that will likely be made more clear with the upcoming strategic review. If you would just take management's plan without considering all of the factors then you are naive.

And you should be ashamed of yourself for your CRAPPY team-player attitude. You too are a member of the admittedly fractured Delta "family" and you should at least be a little supportive. I am glad to hear you are so looking forward to the lowering of the salary bar. Perhaps you would be happy with Mesa wages one day.

Tim,

First, I don't think the creditors would allow things to go too far in the tank because they would have a lot to lose financially in a bankruptcy or worse. Second, the shareholders would likely sue management for not protecting their interests - shareholders would be the last to be recouped in a bankruptcy. Grinstein also needs to renegotiate debt payments - something that he has yet to do effectively (you can alter the terms to reduce the immediate payments because Delta has sufficient collatoral). Clearly DALPA is taking more initiative now so I am hopeful that more sincere negotiations will take place soon. But don't expect the mainliners to just bend over and accept concessions without a clearer plan and without a little give-and-take. Keep in mind that managements' bonuses are based on the amount of concessions they can draw from the pilots - is anyone going to cap GG's bonus level?

 

[DLslug]

Let's keep it short and simple;

I and most Delta pilots are willing to give paycuts to whatever it takes to improve our company's situation.

I have heard only one pilot (count that, one..1...1...1) that said wait to take what the BK judge gives us.

I do not have any ill-will to any DCI affiliate pilot. I wish you all the best in the places your career takes you.

I think many of you have the general sentiment of the Delta pilot group all wrong.

All for now,

DLslug

 

[dtfl]

max pay???

Huh?
Ok - lets see - I am a Delta pilot. I welcome a pay cut as we need to get back in line with what the market will bear - also I was happier than a pig in sh*t to be hired at the old pay scale anyway.

Ok, friends -

I have 5 friends, all of whom are Delta pilots, in the AF Reserves that feel this way

2 - welcome pay cuts, but want it equitable and want to see how it will benefit the company (meaning they are willing yet suspicious)
1- Schoolhouse instructor - welcomes a cut to ensure the future of the airline
2 - welcome cuts so we can get back to profitability.

So there are 6 viewpoints.

Every time I log on all I see is the RJ guys bashing mainline. I will tell you what I tell Enlisted folks that bitch about officers. Go to college, become one. You are tired of mainline guys making money and controlling your fate in RJs? You could have went into the military and flown fixed wing and went right to mainline if not then you would have chosen the route you did. Why the bashing? Either way - you guys need to realize that one day you will WANT to be at a main line carrier and that attitude will show and you will be flying that 70 seat RJ for the rest of your life.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Afellowaviator,

If you think all Delta pilots feel that way you are crazy. Yes, there probably are some old, fat, Southern-boy Delta pilots who advocate that I am sure. But many would just prefer stability (at least those who are within furlough range). Any Delta pilot who advocates that saying is probably at the pinnacle of the seniority list and he doesn't care too much about the future because he will be retiring in the next few years and he wants to max out his pension (if the pension fund isn't depleted or reduced). That's a radical viewpoint and I haven't heard it from my 6-7 friends at Delta - not one says that. They will be relieved when negotiations are consummated. Nobody likes to read the dire predictions in the newspapers everyday - but at the same time, nobody is willing to blindly accept management's first proposal - that's not a negotiation. Cuts will be viewed as an investment in Delta's future - a future that will likely be made more clear with the upcoming strategic review. If you would just take management's plan without considering all of the factors then you are naive.


Lighten up Francis.

I was being a little facicious, (spelling?).

All we have heard from Delta pilots since the failed PID is that we evil Comair pilots wanted DOH. And the reasoning was that some one "heard" a Comair pilot say so. Now you people are saying Delta pilots are not demanding "max pay to the last day". And are making the argument that maybe a "few" hardliners may be quilty of this but it is not the general consensus.

This is the same thing we have been saying about the DOH, but to this very day, several Delta pilots still bring this up on these boards, General, and make it an issue.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Huh?
Ok - lets see - I am a Delta pilot. I welcome a pay cut as we need to get back in line with what the market will bear - also I was happier than a pig in sh*t to be hired at the old pay scale anyway.

Ok, friends -

I have 5 friends, all of whom are Delta pilots, in the AF Reserves that feel this way

2 - welcome pay cuts, but want it equitable and want to see how it will benefit the company (meaning they are willing yet suspicious)
1- Schoolhouse instructor - welcomes a cut to ensure the future of the airline
2 - welcome cuts so we can get back to profitability.

So there are 6 viewpoints.

Every time I log on all I see is the RJ guys bashing mainline. I will tell you what I tell Enlisted folks that bitch about officers. Go to college, become one. You are tired of mainline guys making money and controlling your fate in RJs? You could have went into the military and flown fixed wing and went right to mainline if not then you would have chosen the route you did. Why the bashing? Either way - you guys need to realize that one day you will WANT to be at a main line carrier and that attitude will show and you will be flying that 70 seat RJ for the rest of your life.

Oh God. Here we go again with this Military Officer thing. We at Comair have several Military Officers flying and taking good care of their families. Whats your point? Uh, Sir...

 

[InclusiveScope]

Every time I log on all I see is the RJ guys bashing mainline. I will tell you what I tell Enlisted folks that bitch about officers. Go to college, become one. You are tired of mainline guys making money and controlling your fate in RJs? You could have went into the military and flown fixed wing and went right to mainline if not then you would have chosen the route you did. Why the bashing? Either way - you guys need to realize that one day you will WANT to be at a main line carrier and that attitude will show and you will be flying that 70 seat RJ for the rest of your life.

Here we go again with elitist BS. I have 8000 hours. No accidents, violations, or DUIs. I have the college degree. Many of my FOs are former Air Force, Navy, and Army pilots. Some of them a retired military pilots with 20+ years as military pilots. Get off your high horse - you don't walk on water!

 

[N2264J]

Re: DALPA returning to table...

And you should be ashamed of yourself for your CRAPPY team-player attitude. You too are a member of the admittedly fractured Delta "family" and you should at least be a little supportive.

That's irony, right? You're engaging in irony.

Comair and ASA pilots don't need any condescending lectures about being team players from mainline pilots who have no idea what that means.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Here we go again with elitist BS. I have 8000 hours. No accidents, violations, or DUIs. I have the college degree. Many of my FOs are former Air Force, Navy, and Army pilots. Some of them a retired military pilots with 20+ years as military pilots. Get off your high horse - you don't walk on water!

Amen!