DALPA returning to table a positive!

[XRMEFLYER]

That's irony, right? You're engaging in irony.

Comair and ASA pilots don't need any condescending lectures about being team players from mainline pilots who have no idea what that means.

Amen again!

 

[N2264J]

Re: DALPA returning to table...

Huh? Every time I log on all I see is the RJ guys bashing mainline. I will tell you what I tell Enlisted folks that bitch about officers. Go to college, become one. You are tired of mainline guys making money and controlling your fate in RJs? You could have went into the military and flown fixed wing and went right to mainline if not then you would have chosen the route you did. Why the bashing? Either way - you guys need to realize that one day you will WANT to be at a main line carrier and that attitude will show and you will be flying that 70 seat RJ for the rest of your life.

As a retired military officer who is flying for an airline that happens to be growing and profitable, I tell you with some regret that your elitest, dismissive atitude here is an embarrassment to me. The pilots I fly with have been union members flying Delta passengers in the same weather mainline flys in, down to minimums, day in and day out, for two decades while you've managed to log a few hours a month in an C-130. Tell me, did you join the Air Force out of a sense of service to your country or were you just one of the opportunists building credentials for a lucrative airline career?

When you've been around the industry for a few years, you may figure it out but in the meantime, I would advise you to keep your opinions of yourself to yourself.

 

[dtfl]

You guys are funny

Elitist? HA. You guys will cry about anything won't you. I'm sorry all you retired OFFICERS and gusy with LOTS OF HOURS. I guess everyone else is wrong or has their nose in the air. Firs t- I am far from an elitist. And as for you who said I am an embarrasment - I'll put my career up against yours anyday buddy - you must have missed the boat in training. There are Enlisted and Officers. There are customs and courtesies, and there are rules. When Es cry and complain I tell them...they volunteered, they knew the rules - follow them or change them.
Same thing.
All I hear is guys bashing mainline. Its TRUE. I am not above anyone. I worked as a reservist to get by for years...you didn't hear me bashing anyone...hell, I applied to many airlines, even some that you are working at - because I wanted to get into the industry. My point is many of you guys can't wait to take a shot at anyone who is a mainline pilot. You have quite a bit of anger built up, and if you keep that attitude..it will get you no where.
That's all. You guys need help.
And ALL regional guys are team players and no mainline are? You make me laugh so hard I am lamost puking. What an IDIOTIC statement. You guys really do drink some kool-aid when you get hired. I know regional guys who would step on their own Mother to get to another airline. Oh.......but that must not be true. All you guys are team players. SO let me ask you - and this is rhetorical since I am tired of all your attitudes......when you got hired at your regional - what were your career goals? STAY there are whine? or move to the mainline? Methinks me knows the answer. Now go look in the mirror and say the answer out loud.
If yall don't have a solution - why not stop with all the complaining?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Huh?

Every time I log on all I see is the RJ guys bashing mainline. I will tell you what I tell Enlisted folks that bitch about officers. Go to college, become one. You are tired of mainline guys making money and controlling your fate in RJs?

You could have went into the military and flown fixed wing and went right to mainline if not then you would have chosen the route you did. Why the bashing? Either way - you guys need to realize that one day you will WANT to be at a main line carrier and that attitude will show and you will be flying that 70 seat RJ for the rest of your life.

No, we are tired of ALPA allowing some preferred pilot groups to abuse the bargaining status of the union to divide and conquer pilots at other airlines. ASA and Comair pilots simply want the ability to participate in the negotiations over our wages and working conditions - and the ability to ratify our contract with our employer.

Look at the numbers, around half of airline pilots are at the airlines that ALPA does not treat as "preferred" groups. We pilots are denied representation through a jerrymandered system of ALPA governance that results in all of us sharing one EVP, while the "preferred" pilot groups each get their own EVP. The result is that we are left to compete with eachother, lowering the standard of the profession because ALPA will not allow us equal representation to our employers.

You, like many mainline pilots, have enjoyed the good fortune of going straight from your government job to another job with a huge sense of entitlement. You have not had to face the problems with ALPA's apartied representational system.

Be no doubt about it - the pilots who feed you customers in their 75,000 lb jets are pilots who's profession deserves protection just as much as yours does.

The RJ's guys do not have anything against mainline pilots. We just don't equate luck and timing with entitlement. We don't buy off on the idea that you are superior, because at least on paper, you are not. We feel we should have equal rights to representation in our union and understandably get defensive when your MEC hijacks the union and tries to destroy us ( IE ALPA's J4J protocol which just resulted is mainline guys flying 737 replacements for less than ASA's pilots fly ATRs for )

You probably don't realize that your representatives restricted me from flying 105 seat jets, all the way down to 50 seat jets. When I complain about it, you tell me to find another job, all while your representatives are negotiating to take away my job. Hey, why don't you find another job and leave mine alone!

 

[Heavy Set]

dtfl,

Good post.

 

[~~~^~~~]

And ALL regional guys are team players and no mainline are? You make me laugh so hard I am lamost puking. What an IDIOTIC statement. You guys really do drink some kool-aid when you get hired. I know regional guys who would step on their own Mother to get to another airline. Oh.......but that must not be true. All you guys are team players. SO let me ask you - and this is rhetorical since I am tired of all your attitudes......when you got hired at your regional - what were your career goals? STAY there are whine? or move to the mainline? Methinks me knows the answer. Now go look in the mirror and say the answer out loud.
If yall don't have a solution - why not stop with all the complaining?

No the Regional guys are not team players, your representatives in collusion with Delta management have made that clear. As the Comair guys indicated by walking off the job, you will learn the ASA pilots are not very pleased with the treatment we are getting from the ALPA / Delta tag team effort. ASA pilots are in the position to shut this place down - even if you do take a cut - so you had better be praying we feel like team players when we are released.

As stated, your MEC negotiated my current job expectations from 105 to 50 seats.... It was not my "expectation" that ALPA would enable mainline's predatory tendencies to effectively steal back what had already been sold in exchange for higher wages.

It is likely the actions of your MEC will result in AirTran and Jet Blue's continued growth. Since your MEC would rather attack us than encourage us to happilly subsidize your losses while feeding you customers - many of us will probably use our thousands of hours of PIC time and degrees to get hired at the next generation of "major" airlines which shun ALPA representation.

When we are there - I'm just wondering if we can "staple" you. Perhaps a flow through would be better so we can give hiring preferences to "regional" pilots with thousands of hours of command time under their belt. After all, RJ pilots have much more in common with 717 pilots than those who single handedly operated a weapons platform - right? I'm not serious but bigotry is bigotry and the only folks who like it are the bigots.

~~~^~~~

 

[N2264J]

DALPA returning to table...

Elitist? HA...There are Enlisted and Officers. There are customs and courtesies, and there are rules. When Es cry and complain I tell them...they volunteered, they knew the rules - follow them or change them. Same thing.

It's not the same thing at all, Your Highness. "Regional" pilots are not Es. We don't work for you. We are not subordinate to you. We're all supposed to have equal standing in this union. We don't like the idea of "team player" only if it benefits you and we sure don't care for your attitude of entitlement.

I suggest trying to push your weight around on the enlisted next drill weekend (if they'll let you) since that's seems to be an integral part of who you are.

 

[TonyC]

If this is true, then why the press release stating:

Delta Air Lines chief executive Gerald Grinstein said . . .

Please tell me you're not serious.


Psssssst. One word: PROPOGANDA

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Heavy Set,

no it wasn't.

 

[Caveman]

Deleted

 

[Heavy Set]

ATR,

It was a good post because it reflected the views of a lot of mainline pilots (and outsiders like me) who believe that they are being sold out by so-called "team players." That's the point. Management has succeeded in dividing and conquering - they have pitted one group against another and exploited each group's insecurity (look out for your own best interest and nothing else...). I am sure Leo is laughing from Martha's Vineyard...

 

[XRMEFLYER]

ATR,

It was a good post because it reflected the views of a lot of mainline pilots (and outsiders like me) who believe that they are being sold out by so-called "team players." That's the point. Management has succeeded in dividing and conquering - they have pitted one group against another and exploited each group's insecurity (look out for your own best interest and nothing else...). I am sure Leo is laughing from Martha's Vineyard...

Who is selling them out and how?

 

[On Your Six]

I think what Heavy is trying to say is that there appears to be a pro-management viewpoint (i.e., "Just accept whatever Management wants and save our a$$es") prevelant among the ASA and Comair pilots - especially those on the board. Everyone knows that the industry has changed - the LCC environment will REQUIRE lower DAL pilot wages. That is not the issue - the issue is how much and supporting what "new plan"? Restructurings can follow the USAirways/Dave Siegel (just cut costs to the bone and pray for the best) route or the "novel" route that incorporates new thinking combined with cost cuts. Nobody wants to cross the street BEFORE looking both ways - and that is the impression that a lot of the Delta guys I know are getting from their ASA/Comair counterparts.

Rushing to cut pilot wages will not be the only silver bullet here - there are many other things to be done and yet not much has been outlined...

 

[chperplt]

to be a pro-management viewpoint (i.e., "Just accept whatever Management wants and save our a$$es") prevelant among the ASA and Comair pilots - especially those on the board

I must be reading this statement out of context. Do you actually think that Comair/ASA pilots are being led on a leash by management? We "just accept" whatever management wants us to do?

Really??

 

[737 Pylt]

immature!!!!

Ranger;
BTW;
I am not DCI.

No but with your type of responses, you're probably 12!
737