DALPA counter proposal- pay attn NWA

MajorAv8r

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Delta Pilots Offer $90.7M in Concessions

Published: 11/9/05


ATLANTA (AP) - The pilots union at bankrupt Delta Air Lines Inc. said in a court filing it is offering the carrier an average of nearly $91 million a year in concessions, which the union contends is sufficient to help Delta trim labor costs to a competitive level.
The disclosure came Thursday in an objection the Air Line Pilots Association filed in response to Delta's request to void its pilot contract. If granted, Delta is likely to impose $325 million in concessions, including a 19.5 percent pay cut and other benefit and work rule changes.
Atlanta-based Delta currently has about 6,000 active pilots, who agreed last year to $1 billion in contract concessions as the airline sought to avoid Chapter 11.
The union filing with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York said Delta's Sept. 14 bankruptcy was not because of its labor contract, or competition from discount carriers, but was caused by soaring fuel costs.
In its court filing, ALPA said the $90.7 million average annual concessions over four years would be more than enough to meet Delta's stated goal of reducing its pilot costs per available seat mile.
The union said that if Delta rejects its contract "and imposes the draconian terms on the plots set forth in (its) proposal, the pilots will be angry, frustrated and demoralized." The union said the contract's rejection would give pilots the right to strike, and it warned a walkout would devastate Delta.
Company spokeswoman Chris Kelly would say only that Delta remained committed to reaching a consensual agreement with the union, repeating an earlier statement.
In a letter to pilots Wednesday, Lee Moak, the chairman of the union's executive committee, said the pilots "will not willingly work without a contract."
A group representing retired Delta pilots filed a motion Wednesday in bankruptcy court objecting to Delta's request to reject the pilot contract. The objection accused Delta of acting in bad faith by ceasing certain pension payments despite the contract still being in effect.
Also Wednesday, the union encouraged members to pack a Nov. 15 rally scheduled for suburban Atlanta to defend their contract.
Atlanta-based Delta has lost nearly $10 billion since January 2001. The company is scheduled to release its third-quarter results on Thursday.
Delta has said that although it expects a more than $2 billion loss this year before one-time items, it believes it will return to profitability two years from now if, among other things, it can get the pilot concessions it is seeking and jet fuel doesn't get more costly.
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General Lee

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We have already given $1 billion a year for atleast 5 years, probably more with negotiations added on. Grinstein says "do it once, do it right." Then fuel spikes. We now may give an additional $91 million a year, not counting the eventual dropping of the pensions (United will save over $645 million a year by dropping their pensions). This is going to get interesting indeed.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

IB6 UB9

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General Lee said:
We have already given $1 billion a year for atleast 5 years, probably more with negotiations added on. Grinstein says "do it once, do it right." Then fuel spikes. We now may give an additional $91 million a year, not counting the eventual dropping of the pensions (United will save over $645 million a year by dropping their pensions). This is going to get interesting indeed.


Bye Bye--General Lee
It will be interesting if you practise what you've been preaching on here. I know you know what I mean.
 

Buckaroo

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Why don’t the Delta pilots just demand “United +1%”. Heck, it worked for them last time!

Delta management will definitely play hardball with this one. They will probably receive permission from the judge to cancel the contract. It will be interesting to see if the pilots actually strike.
 

Buckaroo

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“The union said that if Delta rejects its contract "and imposes the draconian terms on the plots set forth in (its) proposal, the pilots will be angry, frustrated and demoralized." The union said the contract's rejection would give pilots the right to strike, and it warned a walkout would devastate Delta.”
Angry, frustrated, and demoralized - That’s exactly how all Delta employees felt when the pilot group staged a sick-out during the holidays of 2000 and forced the cancellation of hundreds of flights. The Delta employees felt the same frustration and demoralization in the summer of 2001 when the pilot group walked picket lines and threatened to strike while demanding “United +1%” .
They should demand United +1% now! What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.
 

MajorAv8r

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Buckaroo said:
“The union said that if Delta rejects its contract "and imposes the draconian terms on the plots set forth in (its) proposal, the pilots will be angry, frustrated and demoralized." The union said the contract's rejection would give pilots the right to strike, and it warned a walkout would devastate Delta.”
Angry, frustrated, and demoralized - That’s exactly how all Delta employees felt when the pilot group staged a sick-out during the holidays of 2000 and forced the cancellation of hundreds of flights. The Delta employees felt the same frustration and demoralization in the summer of 2001 when the pilot group walked picket lines and threatened to strike while demanding “United +1%” .
They should demand United +1% now! What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Why don't you get on your tug and drive away. The pilots have given there fair share to the companies mis management. Everyone is hurting. Wouldn't you have tried to negotiate if you had the opportunity, oh I see you were willing to give that sick time, pay, vacation.

One thing others need to think about is, when the pilots get raises it brings up the bar for everyone else. Also, mgt is wanting to farm out more flying and this effect everyone at the company!
 

800Dog

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Buckaroo said:
“The union said that if Delta rejects its contract "and imposes the draconian terms on the plots set forth in (its) proposal, the pilots will be angry, frustrated and demoralized." The union said the contract's rejection would give pilots the right to strike, and it warned a walkout would devastate Delta.”
Angry, frustrated, and demoralized - That’s exactly how all Delta employees felt when the pilot group staged a sick-out during the holidays of 2000 and forced the cancellation of hundreds of flights. The Delta employees felt the same frustration and demoralization in the summer of 2001 when the pilot group walked picket lines and threatened to strike while demanding “United +1%” .
They should demand United +1% now! What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander.

There was no sickout sport. Many guys refused to fly overtime over the holidays and decided to spend time with their Families. Had management properly staffed the airline, it would not have been an issue. Get your head out of your ass!
 

Buckaroo

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800Dog said:
There was no sickout sport. Many guys refused to fly overtime over the holidays and decided to spend time with their Families. Had management properly staffed the airline, it would not have been an issue. Get your head out of your ass!
You say Tomayto, I say Tomahto. Same difference, sport.
 

Hair-on-Fire

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General Lee said:
(United will save over $645 million a year by dropping their pensions). This is going to get interesting indeed.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Don't forget that UAL replaced the pensions with new retirement plans, so the savings is not the whole $645 million.
 

General Lee

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Buckaroo said:
Why don’t the Delta pilots just demand “United +1%”. Heck, it worked for them last time!

Delta management will definitely play hardball with this one. They will probably receive permission from the judge to cancel the contract. It will be interesting to see if the pilots actually strike.
I think we will. And, there are way too many people who make a lot of money off of our gravy train, so they may pressure the company to settle. You don't just roll over and let them grab everything. They told the judge they needed $325 million worth, and then they ask for what really amounts to double that, and then doesn't negotiate. Sorry.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

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IB6 UB9 said:
It will be interesting if you practise what you've been preaching on here. I know you know what I mean.
My vote is locked and loaded.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

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Hair-on-Fire said:
Don't forget that UAL replaced the pensions with new retirement plans, so the savings is not the whole $645 million.
But, the savings was fairly large per year regardless, and Delta has not figured any of that into the savings equation. And, our Pension obligations are a heck of a lot more than United's. We currently owe $10.6 billion, with the PBGC responsible for $8.4 billion of that. That is more than the $6 billion or so United gave to the PBGC.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

RS6

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Buckaroo said:
Why don’t the Delta pilots just demand “United +1%”. Heck, it worked for them last time!



You were reading my mind....

what goes around, comes around.

I really don't think they will strike. Too many pilots on the property with too many bills to pay. It's not like they are in a position to run out and get another job in their profession.

I just don't see it happening. Too many would scab, and it would ultimately fail. I see ALPA rolling over on this...again...
 
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General Lee

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Buckaroo said:
You say Tomayto, I say Tomahto. Same difference, sport.
You are wrong. Since when do you "have to" fly overtime? That is what it amounted to.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

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RS6 said:
You were reading my mind....

what goes around, comes around.
Man you're cool. Sounds like you deserve very little.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Buckaroo

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General Lee said:
Man you're cool. Sounds like you deserve very little.

Bye Bye--General Lee
C'mon General Lee, why don't you guys demand United +1% and march in mindless lockstep a block from headquarters like you did last time?

It will work again, trust me!
 

banger

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Hey GL
Did you read "Airline without a pilot" ? by Harry Nolan Jr.
Great book on the DAL recent failure. I got it online for like $25. Really shows how Gerry was asleep at the wheel when he was on the DAL board compensation panel when Leo packed all those golden parachutes. It does a good job documenting all the things the guys on the DAL forum have been saying. I highly recommend it.
Adios - Banger
 

General Lee

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banger said:
Hey GL
Did you read "Airline without a pilot" ? by Harry Nolan Jr.
Great book on the DAL recent failure. I got it online for like $25. Really shows how Gerry was asleep at the wheel when he was on the DAL board compensation panel when Leo packed all those golden parachutes. It does a good job documenting all the things the guys on the DAL forum have been saying. I highly recommend it.
Adios - Banger
Nah, I was here the whole time WATCHING it. This whole deal now with concessions is to see what is fair. I am for giving up some pay to help the company, but not a dime over what really is needed. This is a total grab bag, they are going for everything. I enjoy my job, but I won't become a slave. Most of us feel the same I believe. Sure, there could be a lot of umemployed pilots after a strike, but the same goes with a bunch of unemployed management types that are making a killing right now, and many creditors getting very little for their investment. I think the $91 million offer is just the start of some intense negotiations. If it all doesn't work out for me, maybe I will start a computer service called "ASK GENERAL LEE"--and I will dole out advice on love, investments, and airline hiring. I think it will be as big as Google. Am I right people? Sure I am.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

CFIT

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General Lee said:
I think we will. And, there are way too many people who make a lot of money off of our gravy train, so they may pressure the company to settle. You don't just roll over and let them grab everything. They told the judge they needed $325 million worth, and then they ask for what really amounts to double that, and then doesn't negotiate. Sorry.

Bye Bye--General Lee
I think Delta is sick and tired of DALPA dragging their feet on negotiations the whole time all the other employee groups have taken cuts. I don't blame them taking this to the judge, if left up to DALPA you guys would dick with this for the next 18 months.

And remember General toolee, you are supposed to blame all these problems on RJ's.
 

General Lee

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CFIT said:
I think Delta is sick and tired of DALPA dragging their feet on negotiations the whole time all the other employee groups have taken cuts. I don't blame them taking this to the judge, if left up to DALPA you guys would dick with this for the next 18 months.

And remember General toolee, you are supposed to blame all these problems on RJ's.
So right you are! The RJs have NOT helped our situation at all, and companies like SkyWest have been "insulated" (a la Ron Reber) from high fuel costs, leaving us with the bill. Without those savings, SkyWest would be the next Indy Air.

So, we are draggin our feet, huh? I guess you have never thought that a management could TAKE ADVANTAGE of the only union at a large company? Nah, you aren't that smart to think of that. And, the other employees cuts aren't even close to what we have taken. (% wise) Sure, they like to add that they have had huge health care additions plus the 10% pay cuts. So have we, plus 33% pay cuts. They don't tell you that. They seem to add the healthcare additions to their cuts, and think we haven't had the same. Wrong. Have a great one!


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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