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DAL RJ order soon?
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skiddriver
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Caveman
Grandpa
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Skiddriver,
Perhaps you're right. I find it amazing that an alleged comment made by senior management at DAL is all of a sudden de facto the real reason why us evil CMR pilots won't allow DAL furloughees to work here. It's all a bunch of crap and GL knows it. It just get's freaking old after awhile.
While I'm at it let me rant on about a few other things.
Every single misfortune that has befallen the DAL mainline pilots is a direct result of their own MEC's action or inaction. Our MEC has not made one decision that has ANY effect on DAL pilots. Not one.
It was a collaborative group of mainline MEC's that denied the PID outright. If they had just simply honored ALPA's own merger policy not one of the guys furloughed would be out of work right now. Somehow, though, it's not only our fault that they are out of work but it's also our fault that they can't find work elsewhere. BS!
Years ago the DAL MEC decided it would be okay to allow some outsourcing of DAL brand flying because they didn't want to fly t-props. They further exacerbated the problem by allowing that outsourcing to apply to that newfangled RJ. Now that it's biting them in the a$$ it's somehow our fault. BS!
Comair neither petitioned nor campaigned to be a WO. We were bought out in a hostile takeover. Comair owns CVG and they know it. We didn't need mainline then and we don't need it now. But, they expect us to rollover and be good little boys and defer to what's best for the mainline pilots. BS!
I'm fed up and I've had enough. GL and the rest aren't willing to look at the truth. They buy into whatever situationally suits their needs. The only thing GL says that's legit is his concern for the DAL furloughees. I'll give him that much but he is way off base on the how and why of everything else.
Perhaps you're right. I find it amazing that an alleged comment made by senior management at DAL is all of a sudden de facto the real reason why us evil CMR pilots won't allow DAL furloughees to work here. It's all a bunch of crap and GL knows it. It just get's freaking old after awhile.
While I'm at it let me rant on about a few other things.
Every single misfortune that has befallen the DAL mainline pilots is a direct result of their own MEC's action or inaction. Our MEC has not made one decision that has ANY effect on DAL pilots. Not one.
It was a collaborative group of mainline MEC's that denied the PID outright. If they had just simply honored ALPA's own merger policy not one of the guys furloughed would be out of work right now. Somehow, though, it's not only our fault that they are out of work but it's also our fault that they can't find work elsewhere. BS!
Years ago the DAL MEC decided it would be okay to allow some outsourcing of DAL brand flying because they didn't want to fly t-props. They further exacerbated the problem by allowing that outsourcing to apply to that newfangled RJ. Now that it's biting them in the a$$ it's somehow our fault. BS!
Comair neither petitioned nor campaigned to be a WO. We were bought out in a hostile takeover. Comair owns CVG and they know it. We didn't need mainline then and we don't need it now. But, they expect us to rollover and be good little boys and defer to what's best for the mainline pilots. BS!
I'm fed up and I've had enough. GL and the rest aren't willing to look at the truth. They buy into whatever situationally suits their needs. The only thing GL says that's legit is his concern for the DAL furloughees. I'll give him that much but he is way off base on the how and why of everything else.
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General Lee
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- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
CMRCPT,
Talk about Morons. You love to bring the "Big guy vs the Little guy" aspect into this. I never said anything about that. I just gave my opinion about the "CRM" comment that I did hear, even if it was second hand. A lot of my friends were in NEED after they got furloughed, and even though they might not have taken a job offered by Comair, it would have been nice to be offered something in their time of need. Just like the Comair pilots knew they would get some sort of financial help during their strike. (from everyone) It just ticked me off. And, in reality, all we did at SLC was get rid of the last bank out at night--mostly to Montana, which is always slower except for three months during Summer. As far as the SLC turning into a DFW RJ fest, the word here is that route planning admitted to DFW workers that they took out too much, and that they will be adding some back, including maybe a 737-800 crew base in the future. How did you guys do in DFW in the end? One flight to CVG in the mornings. How about SLC? You got how many flights? Sounds like you guys are too expensive.
Fins,
The word is out that there will be some sort of order soon. I don't know the plane, but if it is a plane that isn't currently on our payscale, then Delta would be making a good choice due to the fact that they could get rid of current higher paying aircraft(737-200) and immediately pay the crews less on a newer one with a great payment plan. (The A318, EMB-190, maybe 717) Our contract says that negotiating a new aircraft pay rate is done by comparing it to other airlines that have the same new plane---so Frontier has the A318 and Jetblue will have the EMB-190. Sounds like a substantial savings plan, don't you think? I don't know about the 717, primarily because Delta probably isn't on best terms with Boeing right now, so I think that might be unlikely. As far as buying the new aircraft, we don't know what the deal would involve, and it may be a great one. We may be able to get rid of other aircraft that burn more gas, have higher crew costs, etc. The 100 seater seems to be able to match the current passenger needs---with a CASM that is better than a 50 seat RJ when up against Jetblue etc.... With upcoming paycuts (we think it is likely), fuel prices eventually coming down(when Iraq produces its full potential---and the word is on those financial shows that a lot of other countries will be making a glut in the market), and the economy getting better----we will find our way out of this financial mess. Servicing the debt can keep you alive for many many years. Relax my friend---you will get back into your left seat on the CR7. And, it sounds like you do pretty well on Wall Street, too.
Caveman,
Here we go again--you are right on everything and I am wrong. Give me a break. Haven't you seen what has been going on since 9-11? There has been a dismantling of higher paying jobs. Sure, the couple years right after 9-11 have necessitated using more RJs to help us keep some revenue, but what about when things rebound? They are starting to now, and the return to more profitable days are coming. But, you guys want to get your hands on everything you can now while you have a chance. Most people would think that it is logical that you might want to move up to the major partner and get better pay and benefits....You guys have been fairly cocky ("our company was bought outright....a hostile takeover...we would have been the biggest REGIONAL in the WORLD!!!!!!) and now know that your senior pilots have ruined it for the junior ones for the most part, and now are going for everything. "We want this, you can't do that to us (even though Leo signed it)" I just don't get it, huh? You don't get it. Instead of all of this bickering, we could have had a flow through or preferential hiring for you--and ALL OF YOU could have moved up and enjoyed better pay, bigger planes, and better retirement IF YOU HAD WANTED TO. But no, you got greedy and wanted date of hire (I was there--when I heard that--during our contract talks--I heard it). We could have had a lot of mainline growth and you guys could have moved right up---but the senior guys at your airline didn't want to be the bottom. That is the truth. I do not have it all wrong--I saw it with my own eyes. Your system chief pilot in 1999 was hired at Delta and I talked with him extensively when he was on our jumpseat, and he said your senior guys didn't want anything to do with preferrential hiring, or really even a flow through. They ruined it for everyone, and he admitted that.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Talk about Morons. You love to bring the "Big guy vs the Little guy" aspect into this. I never said anything about that. I just gave my opinion about the "CRM" comment that I did hear, even if it was second hand. A lot of my friends were in NEED after they got furloughed, and even though they might not have taken a job offered by Comair, it would have been nice to be offered something in their time of need. Just like the Comair pilots knew they would get some sort of financial help during their strike. (from everyone) It just ticked me off. And, in reality, all we did at SLC was get rid of the last bank out at night--mostly to Montana, which is always slower except for three months during Summer. As far as the SLC turning into a DFW RJ fest, the word here is that route planning admitted to DFW workers that they took out too much, and that they will be adding some back, including maybe a 737-800 crew base in the future. How did you guys do in DFW in the end? One flight to CVG in the mornings. How about SLC? You got how many flights? Sounds like you guys are too expensive.
Fins,
The word is out that there will be some sort of order soon. I don't know the plane, but if it is a plane that isn't currently on our payscale, then Delta would be making a good choice due to the fact that they could get rid of current higher paying aircraft(737-200) and immediately pay the crews less on a newer one with a great payment plan. (The A318, EMB-190, maybe 717) Our contract says that negotiating a new aircraft pay rate is done by comparing it to other airlines that have the same new plane---so Frontier has the A318 and Jetblue will have the EMB-190. Sounds like a substantial savings plan, don't you think? I don't know about the 717, primarily because Delta probably isn't on best terms with Boeing right now, so I think that might be unlikely. As far as buying the new aircraft, we don't know what the deal would involve, and it may be a great one. We may be able to get rid of other aircraft that burn more gas, have higher crew costs, etc. The 100 seater seems to be able to match the current passenger needs---with a CASM that is better than a 50 seat RJ when up against Jetblue etc.... With upcoming paycuts (we think it is likely), fuel prices eventually coming down(when Iraq produces its full potential---and the word is on those financial shows that a lot of other countries will be making a glut in the market), and the economy getting better----we will find our way out of this financial mess. Servicing the debt can keep you alive for many many years. Relax my friend---you will get back into your left seat on the CR7. And, it sounds like you do pretty well on Wall Street, too.
Caveman,
Here we go again--you are right on everything and I am wrong. Give me a break. Haven't you seen what has been going on since 9-11? There has been a dismantling of higher paying jobs. Sure, the couple years right after 9-11 have necessitated using more RJs to help us keep some revenue, but what about when things rebound? They are starting to now, and the return to more profitable days are coming. But, you guys want to get your hands on everything you can now while you have a chance. Most people would think that it is logical that you might want to move up to the major partner and get better pay and benefits....You guys have been fairly cocky ("our company was bought outright....a hostile takeover...we would have been the biggest REGIONAL in the WORLD!!!!!!) and now know that your senior pilots have ruined it for the junior ones for the most part, and now are going for everything. "We want this, you can't do that to us (even though Leo signed it)" I just don't get it, huh? You don't get it. Instead of all of this bickering, we could have had a flow through or preferential hiring for you--and ALL OF YOU could have moved up and enjoyed better pay, bigger planes, and better retirement IF YOU HAD WANTED TO. But no, you got greedy and wanted date of hire (I was there--when I heard that--during our contract talks--I heard it). We could have had a lot of mainline growth and you guys could have moved right up---but the senior guys at your airline didn't want to be the bottom. That is the truth. I do not have it all wrong--I saw it with my own eyes. Your system chief pilot in 1999 was hired at Delta and I talked with him extensively when he was on our jumpseat, and he said your senior guys didn't want anything to do with preferrential hiring, or really even a flow through. They ruined it for everyone, and he admitted that.
Bye Bye--General Lee
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Caveman, excuse my rant, but every negative aspect of being a wholly owned vendor of small jet lift in the DCI portofolio with no scope over a single hour of the lift you bid for against other vendors is a direct result of the failure of the CMR pilots to negotiate any successorship language. If the CMR pilots had had the sense that God gave a peanut they would have had language in their contract that required a list merger in the event CMR was ever acquired.
skiddriver
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 405
General Lee said:
Gen,
Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for), and also say it wouldn't work having Delta furloughees at Comair because of a CRM issue. These are mutually exclusive positions. It just makes a handy excuse for your MEC not continuing the effort.
Your MEC didn't ask for them to come to Comair on the basis of common decency, he offered a trade for their employment (semi-preferential hiring - about third or fourth on the list). The Comair MEC agreed to negotiate a trade for your furloughees employment, just as your MEC proposed. Our MEC didn't see the initial offer as sufficient, your MEC wasn't serious enough about the issue to discuss any other trade, end of story.
It was a business offer initiated by your MEC, and terminated by your MEC. Nothing more, nothing less. It takes two to tango, and the reason your furloughees still have to resign their seniority number to work at Comair is because of your MEC's decision to discontinue talks. Last time I talked to JC about it, he was still waiting for the call back.
General Lee
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- 20,442
N2264J,
Interesting quote:
"Isn't anybody over there in management responsible to the shareholders?
Who thinks that the Comair pilots will "share the concessionary pain" under these conditions?"
Wait one second, the reason Delta brought back the furloughs early is because they knew they were probably going to lose the grievance that was filed (and still will go underway because Dalpa believes that it was an illeagal furlough and back pay is due) So, if Delta illegally furloughed some pilots, furloughed them and stopped paying them for more than 6 months, is that right for the shareholders? It sounds like Delta saved the shareholders some money by furloughing pilots, and they are bringing them back at a lower payscale--727FE pay--we don't even have them anymore---while they sit and wait for an advanced entitlement. And, I think we all will share the "concessionary pain." Look what is happeneing to your expansion plans---they will bring in more Chataqua planes if you don't. Aren't you glad you don't have your own scope clause? You should have negotiated your own expansion---but you didn't. Scope is good.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Interesting quote:
"Isn't anybody over there in management responsible to the shareholders?
Who thinks that the Comair pilots will "share the concessionary pain" under these conditions?"
Wait one second, the reason Delta brought back the furloughs early is because they knew they were probably going to lose the grievance that was filed (and still will go underway because Dalpa believes that it was an illeagal furlough and back pay is due) So, if Delta illegally furloughed some pilots, furloughed them and stopped paying them for more than 6 months, is that right for the shareholders? It sounds like Delta saved the shareholders some money by furloughing pilots, and they are bringing them back at a lower payscale--727FE pay--we don't even have them anymore---while they sit and wait for an advanced entitlement. And, I think we all will share the "concessionary pain." Look what is happeneing to your expansion plans---they will bring in more Chataqua planes if you don't. Aren't you glad you don't have your own scope clause? You should have negotiated your own expansion---but you didn't. Scope is good.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
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- 20,442
Skiddriver,
Look at your post:
"Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for),"
Our guys were in need, just like the Comair pilots were when they started their strike. Your MEC was asking something in return for HELPING OUR GUYS. That is ridiculous. What did we get for being part of the masses and giving you guys monetary support? Nothing. The ASA pilots were very generous in helping or offereing our pilots help. Your MEC wanted us to GIVE UP SOMETHING. You said it yourself, right there. Why should our pilots be used as pawns? We didn't complain when we paid out monthly checks to help your guys--we didn't. We all wanted you to win. Can you see my point now? We feel bad that our guys were used as pawns, and regardless of what our MEC did or didn't do---that isn't right. There shouldn't have been a price, the ASA guys didn't have one. Thanks for clarifying my point.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Look at your post:
"Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for),"
Our guys were in need, just like the Comair pilots were when they started their strike. Your MEC was asking something in return for HELPING OUR GUYS. That is ridiculous. What did we get for being part of the masses and giving you guys monetary support? Nothing. The ASA pilots were very generous in helping or offereing our pilots help. Your MEC wanted us to GIVE UP SOMETHING. You said it yourself, right there. Why should our pilots be used as pawns? We didn't complain when we paid out monthly checks to help your guys--we didn't. We all wanted you to win. Can you see my point now? We feel bad that our guys were used as pawns, and regardless of what our MEC did or didn't do---that isn't right. There shouldn't have been a price, the ASA guys didn't have one. Thanks for clarifying my point.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Delta has a 100 seat a/c. POS 737-200's still with express paint logo and 19 seats removed. I guess they had to remove the third FA to afford to pay the pilots! LOL sad....It's all the FA's fault! They should share the pain!......Delta add a new A/C type at mainline!?? I guess they'll look pretty in a few years parked next to those shiny white elephants (MD-11's). Can't afford to operate those either.
We senior guys screwed the junior guys at Comair...Yeeeah, right. We saved their A## by not taking a staple. Yeeeeah, um I'm going to need you to come in on Satuday @ 9am General, Sunday too. Bring your I.D. and company manuals too. Yeaaah...
We senior guys screwed the junior guys at Comair...Yeeeah, right. We saved their A## by not taking a staple. Yeeeeah, um I'm going to need you to come in on Satuday @ 9am General, Sunday too. Bring your I.D. and company manuals too. Yeaaah...
General Lee
Well-known member
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- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
COMRCAP,
You can see the future? You knew about 9-11? Wow. That is AWESOME. The senior guys at Comair can see into the future. They knew in advance about the huge downturn after 9-11, and saved their junior guys from being furloughed.......What??? Let's ask them about future Lottery numbers----and we know they ruined the lottery at Delta for their junior guys. You're talking out of your a$$ again.
So, we will park the new 100 seaters next to the MD-11s, huh? Our VP or marketing--Vikki Escarra---admitted that we left "money on the table" this Summer because one of the bean counters decided to park the MD-11s right after the War. Everyone knows that the loads were very full to Europe, and the MD-11 could have helped---but that isn't our fault---and they were not too expensive--the bean counter just jumped the gun. And, we only sold two of them, and the others might be returned to service next Summer. Oh but wait, if Delta gave YOU the 100 seaters, then it would be a GOOD idea. Whatever man. The rates will be a lot lower than the 737-200 POS (as you say it). And it is our fault that the FA's are getting furloughed? Wrong. The company saw that taking out seats could reduce their costs--and they did that to us too by parking the 727s and L10s. They got rid of a lot of people---like the current 1265 pilot furloughs that all have families---while you shun them and look for something in return. Look in the mirror and try not to think about all of the families that are hurting right now. Would they have taken a job at Comair? Maybe, maybe not? But you guys not offering a job without seniority resignation really hit some people hard. A lot of people have been hurt by all of this, and it seems that you guys are looking for more and more. And comparing us to our peers when it comes to salary can be brought back right at you guys. We probably will take a 15% or so paycut eventually, and so might you. Being the highest paid compared to your peer group really sucks during the bad times. That is the way it will be though----have a great day. (and it looks like you will probably never ever see a Delta manual)
Bye bye--General Lee
You can see the future? You knew about 9-11? Wow. That is AWESOME. The senior guys at Comair can see into the future. They knew in advance about the huge downturn after 9-11, and saved their junior guys from being furloughed.......What??? Let's ask them about future Lottery numbers----and we know they ruined the lottery at Delta for their junior guys. You're talking out of your a$$ again.
So, we will park the new 100 seaters next to the MD-11s, huh? Our VP or marketing--Vikki Escarra---admitted that we left "money on the table" this Summer because one of the bean counters decided to park the MD-11s right after the War. Everyone knows that the loads were very full to Europe, and the MD-11 could have helped---but that isn't our fault---and they were not too expensive--the bean counter just jumped the gun. And, we only sold two of them, and the others might be returned to service next Summer. Oh but wait, if Delta gave YOU the 100 seaters, then it would be a GOOD idea. Whatever man. The rates will be a lot lower than the 737-200 POS (as you say it). And it is our fault that the FA's are getting furloughed? Wrong. The company saw that taking out seats could reduce their costs--and they did that to us too by parking the 727s and L10s. They got rid of a lot of people---like the current 1265 pilot furloughs that all have families---while you shun them and look for something in return. Look in the mirror and try not to think about all of the families that are hurting right now. Would they have taken a job at Comair? Maybe, maybe not? But you guys not offering a job without seniority resignation really hit some people hard. A lot of people have been hurt by all of this, and it seems that you guys are looking for more and more. And comparing us to our peers when it comes to salary can be brought back right at you guys. We probably will take a 15% or so paycut eventually, and so might you. Being the highest paid compared to your peer group really sucks during the bad times. That is the way it will be though----have a great day. (and it looks like you will probably never ever see a Delta manual)
Bye bye--General Lee
skiddriver
Well-known member
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- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 405
General Lee said:Skiddriver,
Look at your post:
"Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for),"
Our guys were in need, just like the Comair pilots were when they started their strike. Your MEC was asking something in return for HELPING OUR GUYS. That is ridiculous. What did we get for being part of the masses and giving you guys monetary support? Nothing. The ASA pilots were very generous in helping or offereing our pilots help. Your MEC wanted us to GIVE UP SOMETHING. You said it yourself, right there. Why should our pilots be used as pawns? We didn't complain when we paid out monthly checks to help your guys--we didn't. We all wanted you to win. Can you see my point now? We feel bad that our guys were used as pawns, and regardless of what our MEC did or didn't do---that isn't right. There shouldn't have been a price, the ASA guys didn't have one. Thanks for clarifying my point.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Sure I see your point. As I've posted here before, I recommended (as a non-voting member, since I was still on probation) that we ask management to temporarily relax the resignation rule for all furloughed pilots, including Delta's. And to do it for nothing.
What you can't bring yourself to admit, is that this was a business deal from the git'go, initiated by your MEC. He showed up with an "offer you can't refuse", right out of the drug cartel's negotiating plan - silver or lead. As your MEC stated in the meeting, DALPA wanted Comair MEC support on hiring Delta furloughees - the silver was semi-preferential hiring, the bullet was a publicity campaign to discredit the Comair pilot group (ably conducted on this forum by you). I can only assume that the "and now we'll never hire you, nyah nyah nyah" rhetoric is just an added bonus.
The Comair MEC didn't ask you to give something up, your MEC offered. It was always going to be a business deal, the talks broke down over the price. As they do...
Adios
P38JLightning
Well Endowed Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 223
Thanks RJDC!
"General is a Moron. Always taking a shot at the little guy."
Actually he takes shots only at Comair pilots for a policy we had no controll over, but it makes him feel better for his furloughs. He knows not one ASA pilot "went to bat" for the Delta furloughees, nor lifted a finger regarding an already existing ASA management policy, but ASA good Comair bad is emotionally soothing to him.
"Duane Worthless will be at our MEC meeting on the 9th. I'm sure he'll be asked if he has the guts to sign a DALPA contract with any restrictions on Comair/ASA."
Oh yeah, you mean like those pesky 777 restrictions? Come on, we all know this is about stealing mainline seniority. Need proof? Perhaps your next post will enlighten us.
"Yes I'm for the RJDC and NO I am not going to share the pain that DALPA created for DAL. Just look at SLC! It's gonna be another DFW RJ FEST!"
Yes, the DFW RJ fest! Let's see, Comair has, is it one or two, daily out and backs there now? Okay on to your true intentions...
"We senior guys screwed the junior guys at Comair...Yeeeah, right. We saved their A## by not taking a staple."
So you admit it was and has always been about getting more than a staple. You see, after 23 years of being our own company, and NEVER flying ANYTHING more than 50 seats, suddenly the day after the buyout, ALPA is discriminating against us by not giving us prior YOS seniority credits so we can bid 300 seat equipment ahead of pilots currently on the Delta list. Give me a break!
That's why all these onelist, PID and RJDC demands insist on binding arbitration for seniority integration. In such an environment, with no prenups whatsoever, a staple is the absolute worst you will get, up to and including DOH. Pretty good windfall return on your monthly RJDC "investment" isn't it!
"Yeeeeah, um I'm going to need you to come in on Satuday @ 9am General, Sunday too. Bring your I.D. and company manuals too. Yeaaah..."
Yeaaah...another "big announcement" about as big as the judge allowing the case to continue after throwing out 90% of its claims outright. Or the big announcement of the judge recommending a class action, as if that was somehow validating of the merits of the case. You can bet if the General did come to the big meeting he would be treated to mass amounts of outlandish rhetoric pointing to recent "court rulings" and D.W.'s appearance at Comair as indications of ALPA's impending surrender and the mainline seniority windfall the Comair and ASA pilots so righteously deserve. Or perhaps the abolition of all "controlling" scope, thereby allowing COmair and ASA pilots to underbid Delta pilots for their equipment. Nevermind the faulty presumption that Comair and ASA pilots would be the beneficiaries of said windfall. You don't think Chatauqua and SkyWest would underbid US, do you? Nah, wouldn't happen.
Oh and thanks for putting the stop to that staple thing back during the PID. Of course, Comair and ASA have hired as much or more since then than the total amount of Delta furloughs. So not one Comair or ASA pilot stapled then would be on the street now, and you'd be right seat in probably at least a 737-800 making I'd guess 50 bucks an hour more. Yep, the RJDC visionaries who blatently advised against a staple back then sure saved us all now!
Hopefully we'll get that DOH windfall any day now. Of course, the most junior Delta furlough was hired in June 2001. There's a whole lot of Comair and ASA pilots hired since then that would be "more junior" than that. Guess they'd be out on the street, huh? Who cares though, as long as you get your windfall. Of course I'm sure the courts will mandate DOH integration and DCI furlough/downgrade protection at the same time. Yep, that's what the judge must have been implying "between the lines" when he "recommended" class action and allowed a single count of the case to continue. Yep, keep reading those tea leaves. You've done brilliantly so far.
"General is a Moron. Always taking a shot at the little guy."
Actually he takes shots only at Comair pilots for a policy we had no controll over, but it makes him feel better for his furloughs. He knows not one ASA pilot "went to bat" for the Delta furloughees, nor lifted a finger regarding an already existing ASA management policy, but ASA good Comair bad is emotionally soothing to him.
"Duane Worthless will be at our MEC meeting on the 9th. I'm sure he'll be asked if he has the guts to sign a DALPA contract with any restrictions on Comair/ASA."
Oh yeah, you mean like those pesky 777 restrictions? Come on, we all know this is about stealing mainline seniority. Need proof? Perhaps your next post will enlighten us.
"Yes I'm for the RJDC and NO I am not going to share the pain that DALPA created for DAL. Just look at SLC! It's gonna be another DFW RJ FEST!"
Yes, the DFW RJ fest! Let's see, Comair has, is it one or two, daily out and backs there now? Okay on to your true intentions...
"We senior guys screwed the junior guys at Comair...Yeeeah, right. We saved their A## by not taking a staple."
So you admit it was and has always been about getting more than a staple. You see, after 23 years of being our own company, and NEVER flying ANYTHING more than 50 seats, suddenly the day after the buyout, ALPA is discriminating against us by not giving us prior YOS seniority credits so we can bid 300 seat equipment ahead of pilots currently on the Delta list. Give me a break!
That's why all these onelist, PID and RJDC demands insist on binding arbitration for seniority integration. In such an environment, with no prenups whatsoever, a staple is the absolute worst you will get, up to and including DOH. Pretty good windfall return on your monthly RJDC "investment" isn't it!
"Yeeeeah, um I'm going to need you to come in on Satuday @ 9am General, Sunday too. Bring your I.D. and company manuals too. Yeaaah..."
Yeaaah...another "big announcement" about as big as the judge allowing the case to continue after throwing out 90% of its claims outright. Or the big announcement of the judge recommending a class action, as if that was somehow validating of the merits of the case. You can bet if the General did come to the big meeting he would be treated to mass amounts of outlandish rhetoric pointing to recent "court rulings" and D.W.'s appearance at Comair as indications of ALPA's impending surrender and the mainline seniority windfall the Comair and ASA pilots so righteously deserve. Or perhaps the abolition of all "controlling" scope, thereby allowing COmair and ASA pilots to underbid Delta pilots for their equipment. Nevermind the faulty presumption that Comair and ASA pilots would be the beneficiaries of said windfall. You don't think Chatauqua and SkyWest would underbid US, do you? Nah, wouldn't happen.
Oh and thanks for putting the stop to that staple thing back during the PID. Of course, Comair and ASA have hired as much or more since then than the total amount of Delta furloughs. So not one Comair or ASA pilot stapled then would be on the street now, and you'd be right seat in probably at least a 737-800 making I'd guess 50 bucks an hour more. Yep, the RJDC visionaries who blatently advised against a staple back then sure saved us all now!
Hopefully we'll get that DOH windfall any day now. Of course, the most junior Delta furlough was hired in June 2001. There's a whole lot of Comair and ASA pilots hired since then that would be "more junior" than that. Guess they'd be out on the street, huh? Who cares though, as long as you get your windfall. Of course I'm sure the courts will mandate DOH integration and DCI furlough/downgrade protection at the same time. Yep, that's what the judge must have been implying "between the lines" when he "recommended" class action and allowed a single count of the case to continue. Yep, keep reading those tea leaves. You've done brilliantly so far.
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