DAL RJ order soon?

[ReportCanoa]

'B' for Butt. He He He....

 

[DDpaysoff]

Well it looks like Comair will get the expansion out of SLC and ASA will get the short end of the stick. Thats the reward ASA gets for hiring the Delta castaways.

I wouldn't call it a reward.
1. For all we know Sky west will get 29 flights and comair will get one.
2. If Comair does get a substantial part of SLC it will be at the expense of LGA, DCA, ATL, or CVG. We are not getting enough aircraft to grow a whole lot.
3. Comair is a good operation w/ a lot of flexibility. DCI gives and takes flying every month because they know comair can adapt quickly to new markets. At this place you have to look at the bid packet every month to have any kind of idea where our flying is.
4. Even if Comair got 29 flights and skywest got one, that is a third of ATL and substantially less than LGA and DCA. I don't see any domiciles there either. I still think you will see all 1800 pilots at Comair based in cvg. All this means to comair pilots is a few different overnights.

 

[General Lee]

Someone on the Dalpa.net said that COMAIR got 6 of the new flights, connecting SLC to Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Phoenix, and Minneapolis. ASA got none.

Bye bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

22-6 skywest wins. I believe the new flights = 28. They got a big share of DFW also. Don't be fooled, skywest has quietly grown as much or more than comair and asa.

 

[Russ]

DD
I looked over a company board and it looks like we (SkyWest) are losing a lot of flying in DFW along with the expansion in SLC.

I stand to be corrected.

 

[Anaconda]

only 13 posts before the general turned this into a comair bash-fest...you surprised me.

 

[General Lee]

Anaconda,

What can I say? The "CRM" comment really got to me.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[comrcap]

General is a Moron. Always taking a shot at the little guy. Duane Worthless will be at our MEC meeting on the 9th. I'm sure he'll be asked if he has the guts to sign a DALPA contract with any restrictions on Comair/ASA. Yes I'm for the RJDC and NO I am not going to share the pain that DALPA created for DAL. Just look at SLC! It's gonna be another DFW RJ FEST!

 

[~~~^~~~]

What "new" order is everyone writing about? There were 737-800's planned for delivery in 2002 that were pushed back to 2005. Delta does not have the cash to buy new airplanes, but they can try to re-write the 737-800 order to something smaller that better suits their needs. Despite the fact the E170/190 is a hot product at the moment Delta already has a deal with Boeing that will cost money to cancel.
My bet as to the reason for a lot of non wholly owned DCI growth is that Delta can acquire airplanes without the debt load showing up on the books. In my humble opinion it is a legitimate accounting trick because Delta does actually obligate the company for the non-owned airplanes because Delta has to buy them, or pay penalties, if the codeshare agreement is cancelled.
This was why I was SCREAMING on this board about the Delta MEC's actions on scope. Delta is now in the deals and can not cancel them short of bankruptcy. Those of you who dream of returning Delta flying to Delta pilots (like me) have watched our hope for attaining this goal dashed just within the last 36 months as the Delta MEC let the codeshare cat out of the bag, blocked the Comair and ASA MEC's from negotiating with Delta and continued the ALPA apartied plan of keeping us separate.
By the time the RJDC brings this to a stop, it may be too late. The damage might not be repairable.

By the way, sold my Airtran at $17.12 a share. I bought it at $2.40. Not that I have anything against Airtran at the moment. Just figured that was the lukiest I would ever be. Now if I can just get a job at an airline with a future.

 

[~~~^~~~]

NO I am not going to share the pain that DALPA created for DAL. Just look at SLC! It's gonna be another DFW RJ FEST!

Unfortunately the Delta MEC's actions have resulted in a lot of this flying going outside the Company for a long, long, time. Refer to the post above.

Thanks for supporting the RJDC. If the RJDC could only grow its support base amongst Delta pilots who realize what unionism is all about. There has to be a few of them left somewhere.

 

[Caveman]

GL,

If you'll reread this thread it was you that originally posted the CRM comment.

 

[skiddriver]

Caveman,

I think he meant the original comment from the MEC's meeting, though to clarify, it's an alleged comment he got as hearsay. I don't believe our MEC has validated it. It helps fuel his righteous anger however.

 

[Caveman]

Skiddriver,

Perhaps you're right. I find it amazing that an alleged comment made by senior management at DAL is all of a sudden de facto the real reason why us evil CMR pilots won't allow DAL furloughees to work here. It's all a bunch of crap and GL knows it. It just get's freaking old after awhile.

While I'm at it let me rant on about a few other things.

Every single misfortune that has befallen the DAL mainline pilots is a direct result of their own MEC's action or inaction. Our MEC has not made one decision that has ANY effect on DAL pilots. Not one.

It was a collaborative group of mainline MEC's that denied the PID outright. If they had just simply honored ALPA's own merger policy not one of the guys furloughed would be out of work right now. Somehow, though, it's not only our fault that they are out of work but it's also our fault that they can't find work elsewhere. BS!

Years ago the DAL MEC decided it would be okay to allow some outsourcing of DAL brand flying because they didn't want to fly t-props. They further exacerbated the problem by allowing that outsourcing to apply to that newfangled RJ. Now that it's biting them in the a$$ it's somehow our fault. BS!

Comair neither petitioned nor campaigned to be a WO. We were bought out in a hostile takeover. Comair owns CVG and they know it. We didn't need mainline then and we don't need it now. But, they expect us to rollover and be good little boys and defer to what's best for the mainline pilots. BS!

I'm fed up and I've had enough. GL and the rest aren't willing to look at the truth. They buy into whatever situationally suits their needs. The only thing GL says that's legit is his concern for the DAL furloughees. I'll give him that much but he is way off base on the how and why of everything else.

 

[N2264J]

DAL RJ order

(Some of the returning recalls will sit and not fly, but get paid)

Isn't anybody over there in management responsible to the shareholders?

Who thinks that the Comair pilots will "share the concessionary pain" under these conditions?

 

[General Lee]

CMRCPT,

Talk about Morons. You love to bring the "Big guy vs the Little guy" aspect into this. I never said anything about that. I just gave my opinion about the "CRM" comment that I did hear, even if it was second hand. A lot of my friends were in NEED after they got furloughed, and even though they might not have taken a job offered by Comair, it would have been nice to be offered something in their time of need. Just like the Comair pilots knew they would get some sort of financial help during their strike. (from everyone) It just ticked me off. And, in reality, all we did at SLC was get rid of the last bank out at night--mostly to Montana, which is always slower except for three months during Summer. As far as the SLC turning into a DFW RJ fest, the word here is that route planning admitted to DFW workers that they took out too much, and that they will be adding some back, including maybe a 737-800 crew base in the future. How did you guys do in DFW in the end? One flight to CVG in the mornings. How about SLC? You got how many flights? Sounds like you guys are too expensive.

Fins,

The word is out that there will be some sort of order soon. I don't know the plane, but if it is a plane that isn't currently on our payscale, then Delta would be making a good choice due to the fact that they could get rid of current higher paying aircraft(737-200) and immediately pay the crews less on a newer one with a great payment plan. (The A318, EMB-190, maybe 717) Our contract says that negotiating a new aircraft pay rate is done by comparing it to other airlines that have the same new plane---so Frontier has the A318 and Jetblue will have the EMB-190. Sounds like a substantial savings plan, don't you think? I don't know about the 717, primarily because Delta probably isn't on best terms with Boeing right now, so I think that might be unlikely. As far as buying the new aircraft, we don't know what the deal would involve, and it may be a great one. We may be able to get rid of other aircraft that burn more gas, have higher crew costs, etc. The 100 seater seems to be able to match the current passenger needs---with a CASM that is better than a 50 seat RJ when up against Jetblue etc.... With upcoming paycuts (we think it is likely), fuel prices eventually coming down(when Iraq produces its full potential---and the word is on those financial shows that a lot of other countries will be making a glut in the market), and the economy getting better----we will find our way out of this financial mess. Servicing the debt can keep you alive for many many years. Relax my friend---you will get back into your left seat on the CR7. And, it sounds like you do pretty well on Wall Street, too.


Caveman,

Here we go again--you are right on everything and I am wrong. Give me a break. Haven't you seen what has been going on since 9-11? There has been a dismantling of higher paying jobs. Sure, the couple years right after 9-11 have necessitated using more RJs to help us keep some revenue, but what about when things rebound? They are starting to now, and the return to more profitable days are coming. But, you guys want to get your hands on everything you can now while you have a chance. Most people would think that it is logical that you might want to move up to the major partner and get better pay and benefits....You guys have been fairly cocky ("our company was bought outright....a hostile takeover...we would have been the biggest REGIONAL in the WORLD!!!!!!) and now know that your senior pilots have ruined it for the junior ones for the most part, and now are going for everything. "We want this, you can't do that to us (even though Leo signed it)" I just don't get it, huh? You don't get it. Instead of all of this bickering, we could have had a flow through or preferential hiring for you--and ALL OF YOU could have moved up and enjoyed better pay, bigger planes, and better retirement IF YOU HAD WANTED TO. But no, you got greedy and wanted date of hire (I was there--when I heard that--during our contract talks--I heard it). We could have had a lot of mainline growth and you guys could have moved right up---but the senior guys at your airline didn't want to be the bottom. That is the truth. I do not have it all wrong--I saw it with my own eyes. Your system chief pilot in 1999 was hired at Delta and I talked with him extensively when he was on our jumpseat, and he said your senior guys didn't want anything to do with preferrential hiring, or really even a flow through. They ruined it for everyone, and he admitted that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Caveman, excuse my rant, but every negative aspect of being a wholly owned vendor of small jet lift in the DCI portofolio with no scope over a single hour of the lift you bid for against other vendors is a direct result of the failure of the CMR pilots to negotiate any successorship language. If the CMR pilots had had the sense that God gave a peanut they would have had language in their contract that required a list merger in the event CMR was ever acquired.

 

[flyboy24]

100 seat jet

Word I heard from my pops at Delta is Delta wants a new 737 series 500 100 seat or the 717. Then on to the erj as a last supplier. The erj 100 seat doesn't fit with delta one fleet type plan.

 

[skiddriver]

CMRCPT,

Talk about Morons. You love to bring the "Big guy vs the Little guy" aspect into this. I never said anything about that. I just gave my opinion about the "CRM" comment that I did hear, even if it was second hand. A lot of my friends were in NEED after they got furloughed, and even though they might not have taken a job offered by Comair, it would have been nice to be offered something in their time of need.

Gen,

Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for), and also say it wouldn't work having Delta furloughees at Comair because of a CRM issue. These are mutually exclusive positions. It just makes a handy excuse for your MEC not continuing the effort.

Your MEC didn't ask for them to come to Comair on the basis of common decency, he offered a trade for their employment (semi-preferential hiring - about third or fourth on the list). The Comair MEC agreed to negotiate a trade for your furloughees employment, just as your MEC proposed. Our MEC didn't see the initial offer as sufficient, your MEC wasn't serious enough about the issue to discuss any other trade, end of story.

It was a business offer initiated by your MEC, and terminated by your MEC. Nothing more, nothing less. It takes two to tango, and the reason your furloughees still have to resign their seniority number to work at Comair is because of your MEC's decision to discontinue talks. Last time I talked to JC about it, he was still waiting for the call back.

 

[General Lee]

N2264J,

Interesting quote:


"Isn't anybody over there in management responsible to the shareholders?

Who thinks that the Comair pilots will "share the concessionary pain" under these conditions?"


Wait one second, the reason Delta brought back the furloughs early is because they knew they were probably going to lose the grievance that was filed (and still will go underway because Dalpa believes that it was an illeagal furlough and back pay is due) So, if Delta illegally furloughed some pilots, furloughed them and stopped paying them for more than 6 months, is that right for the shareholders? It sounds like Delta saved the shareholders some money by furloughing pilots, and they are bringing them back at a lower payscale--727FE pay--we don't even have them anymore---while they sit and wait for an advanced entitlement. And, I think we all will share the "concessionary pain." Look what is happeneing to your expansion plans---they will bring in more Chataqua planes if you don't. Aren't you glad you don't have your own scope clause? You should have negotiated your own expansion---but you didn't. Scope is good.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Skiddriver,

Look at your post:

"Try and apply a little critical thinking here. The Comair MEC could not have simultaneously offered to negotiate for your furloughees to come to Comair (which they did, your MEC just didn't want to give up what our MEC was asking for),"

Our guys were in need, just like the Comair pilots were when they started their strike. Your MEC was asking something in return for HELPING OUR GUYS. That is ridiculous. What did we get for being part of the masses and giving you guys monetary support? Nothing. The ASA pilots were very generous in helping or offereing our pilots help. Your MEC wanted us to GIVE UP SOMETHING. You said it yourself, right there. Why should our pilots be used as pawns? We didn't complain when we paid out monthly checks to help your guys--we didn't. We all wanted you to win. Can you see my point now? We feel bad that our guys were used as pawns, and regardless of what our MEC did or didn't do---that isn't right. There shouldn't have been a price, the ASA guys didn't have one. Thanks for clarifying my point.

Bye Bye--General Lee