DAL pilot

[CMRJetDriver]

Gentlemen! You've had a hell of a day.

Please allow me to throw a couple of cents into this beat to death subject. I'm an ex-Midway pilot hired by Comair last February. I'll type this real slow for the benefit of everyone. Comair didn't require me to resign any seniority number with Midway. Even though Midway sent them the paperwork saying I was a furloughed pilot with recall rights. Every Midway pilot here has been sent recall letters in the past few weeks. So even if some pilots were asked to resign seniority, it appears that the HR Form 101 Resignation of Seniority doesn't make it past the mailroom.

Do Comair pilots want to hire furloughed Delta pilots? Without a doubt yes. When Midway furloughed in 2001 Comair sent a jet to Raleigh and flew up anybody who wanted to come. Maybe the pilot group should petition our MEC to publicly support the idea. But the real question is what is preferential hiring? It should mean that Comair's training department calls Delta in Atlanta and says we need 20 pilots to start training on Monday. Send 'em on up to CVG. Then when all the DAL pilots are back in the big iron we get treated the same way. If you're just talking about prefential hiring consideration at the interview it really doesn't mean a thing. You'll just be one of the lucky 200 who make it to the interview out of the 12,000 apps on file and you might get some consideration because our MECs got together and had a group hug. If that's the case DAL pilots will apply to Comair just like we have to and if they're one of the 200 who get interviews out of the 12,000 apps we have on file they might get some consideration as well.

It is amazing to me the rumblings of a few folks on here give the appearance that DAL, ASA and Comair are in total chaos. I have a two leg commute on Delta every week and it is always a pleasant experience. DAL employees ride our aircraft everyday and they have always been great. Everyone knows that these decisions are being made in Atlanta and one group is not to be blamed for another's misfortunes. You cannot blame, however, the different groups of employees trying to look out for one another. I fully expect my MEC to represent our interest as Comair pilots and I know the DAL MEC is trying to take care of their pilots. I just don't see the bitterness that is being expressed here in some of these posts.

Since I'm still on probation here I've just kinda been neutral on the RJDC. I will say that ALPA does have some serious issues that need to be resolved. As bad as some folks think they have it here, most of our slots at Midway are not available because they are giving them to furloughed USAirways pilots. That's right, ALPA pilots who never even worked for Midway are getting the positions at the expense of fellow furloughed ALPA members. So if you don't think ALPA needs some fine tuning, well we'll just have to agree to disagree. I for one am keeping the Comair job.

We now welcome Northwest and Continental, DALs latest code share partners, and one thing is for sure. Until brand flying means anything in Atlanta all of the employee groups will have to mind the store.

 

[darling pretty]

I find it very interesting that none of you responded to the US Airways Express pilots who has far more experience with "preferential hiring" than any of us.

I suppose no one will respond to ex-Midway guys who see their jobs going to US Airway pilots.

CMRJetDriver- I think the reason you never had to resign your seniority number is that no one ever believed Midway would survive, yet alone recall their pilots.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

GENERAL LEE,

Read your post and tell me about the threats again...

They not only threatened to "go public", as if that was not shameful and devisive enough, but he also threatened to attempt a take over of ALL of our aircraft.


Your take on demands our MEC made are also a lie, but you never let that bother you before, did it? They wanted to DISCUSS these areas, and you know why??? BECAUSE THAT IS THE JOB OF AN MEC...To seek resolutions to problems that the pilot group they represent face...

Restrictions on our jobs IS a huge problem we face. What is so rediculous, is the restrictions are coming from fellow union members within the same company...


Our ex Midway pilots know all too well how ALPA can screw the small jet pilots. Midway is up and running again, but instead of the furloughed Midway pilots being recalled, only half will be recalled because ALPA has negotiated half of their jobs away to who? Other ALPA pilots.

So you see, we have to be on guard all the time, and your mec knows our mec will work for us at all times.

Read your take on ASA again, you spun that one out of control...plaeeeze...

The ASA mec had absolutely nothing to do with that decision, and you know it.

For the life of me, I can't understand why you have to get on this board and lie and misrepresent the facts all the time. I would assume it is because you feel a need to cover up the shameful and unethical behavior of you mec, or it is simply that you are a liar, and liars tend to do what? Lie.

Please try to get the facts straight next time.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Oh yes, Fred!!! Sounds like he is extremely happy with the present situatiion. Sounds kinda like a wedge, does it not? The wedge created by having three pilot groupd on the same property.

Fred and company do not like our mec much, do they? I wonder why? Does 750,000.000 dollars ring a bell????

They do not like our mec for the same reasons your mec does not like them. They refuse to roll over and allow our pilots to be screwed like a lot of other small jet pilots have been by alpa and mgt. That's right, alpa &mgt.

Lets see how much you guys love Fred and company during your next contract talks.

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

Hmmmm. Restrictions put on you guys. What? The % Cap just went from 36% of our flying to 44%. Wow---that is really restricting you guys. How many upgrades will that allow? A lot. And the ASA MEC could have squelched the idea of Delta furloughs flying at ASA, but he didn't. Fred Butrell, the President of DCI said in the Atlanta Journal Article that your MEC seems "to have more influence at Comair." He said that---so I guess he is wrong too, right? You are the one that is mis-informed. Oh yeah, our MEC is blowing this all up and made it public to save his a$$.
Our MEC is mad that your MEC won't help when we helped you back during your strike. Should he have made it publc? Yes---and he made the ASA deal public too. You received a huge chunk of flying after our Codeshare negotiations, and you still complain. You are the ones who are benefiting off of our downfall, and can't even let guys go to the bottom of your senority list without wanting more from us. And you think we are greedy? You want this, and that, and more of this. Heck, we gave you a lot---and you couldn't even help the guys who have nothing left. And you still wont respond to the generosity we gave during your strike. It is beyond you to acknowledge that. We didn't put restrictions on you when that happened. We hoped you would win. Now, you might lose twice.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Gen LEE,
Insinuating that we lost our strike?? Is that what I am hearing from you? What A pompous ass you turned out to be. As far as support during the strike, it is custumary to do what you did. It is rare though to have it thrown in ones face continually, as the Delta pilots have been doing.
As far as Fred goes, he is always attempting to drive wedges between the pilot groups in the press. It is his M.O.. He has plenty of reason to dislike our group. We cost them a lot of money. See, it was the first strike EVER on the Delta property. And to top it off, our MEC at one time attemptrd to bring all the pilot groups together, an effort your MEC, in their wisdom, squashed. Fred owes a lot to your MEC. If we had been sucessful, they would not be furloughing ANY pilots right now. And without there ability to furlough pilots, they would have very little leverage. Yes, A REALLY, REALLY WISE MOVE ON YOUR MEC"s part.

Face it Gen.,they screwed up, big time

 

[Otto]

Re: Re: Question for DAL guys

Why punish the Iraqi people, when it's leadership that's to blame?

Those who sit on their hands are part of the problem. Don't align yourselves with the "new lunatic fringe".

Ahh Bill, I'm so glad you brought up this analogy to brilliantly prove my point. We don't specifically TARGET the Iraqi people because they are not the ones we have the grudge with. As a matter of fact, we go out of our way to avoid hitting them because the more they are on our side, the easier it will be to topple the regime we have a disagreement with. Specifically targeting them would only inflame them and prove to them that the Americans are truly the bastards Saddam says they are. In the same way, the Delta proposal to ban all hiring Comair pilots specifically targets and punishes those that are most likely to help the Delta cause at Comair. All you are doing is convincing moderates such as myself that the Delta pilots are truly as unresonable and ludicrous as our MEC says they are.

You see Bill, I was on your side during this thing. I had no problem with pref hiring of Delta guys and I roll my eyes when some Captain I fly with says he should have been merged with DAL by date of hire. I agreed that if they wanted to be at DAL they had plenty of chances to interview in the past. And I HAVE been communicating my disagreement to my MEC. I was never asked to vote on this issue and I have no record of my position so why should I be punished??? When some Delta guy interviewing me decides to give me the ax because he doesn't like "my Comair kind" you might as well be saying you don't like me because I'm black or hispanic or whatever. And after all this you say its MY RESPONSBILITY TO FIX THIS??? What planet are you on?

I may disagree with my MEC but I, and I believe I speak for the other moderates at Comair, when I say we will not be bullied into anything and it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to fix this. You're doing a great job of convincing me that the Comair MEC may have done the right thing after all. The ban on CMR pilots is such a knee-jerk overreaction by Delta, it's hilarious. The Comair MEC wanted a little more than pref treatment because the statements about military pilots still being ahead of Comair/ASA proved the pref treatment was really a farce. (I'm military...yeah that's right..Air Force fixed wing, so I can truly see how unfair that was) The Comair MEC said the door was still open to discusion and Delta responds with a ban of all future Comair pilot hiring at DAL. Real classy negotiations there Delta.

I'm beginning to believe it's true, that this is all about the Delta MEC removing some of the heat he was getting from his own pilots and once again placing the blame for all their troubles on the guys flying RJ's. I must admit, it was a great move as it obviously worked...I'm just amazed so many Delta guys were duped into believing it. Why don't you guys realize that instead of being villians, we're your saviors? Let's see...Delta has the least restrictive scope and they're in the best financial shape of any major...US Air/United have the most restrictive and they're in bankruptcy...do you really think this is coincidence? Why don't you just take your furloughs like men...like all those who've been furloughed before you...and drop this RJs are to blame crap. I guess I won't expect a thank you even as our profits continue to subsidize your losses.

I still disagree with many of the guys I fly with at Comair but you've convinced me that many of the Delta pilots believe anything their MEC tells them and they are not capable of thinking on their own. Well anyway, thank you for helping me to make up my mind on this. Good luck with your future scope restrictions and your futile attempts to manipulate the free market, okay Comrade?

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

The reason I know that is BS is that I flew with the EX-Comair System chief on a leg to Orlando. He left Comair in 1999 and was flying for Delta Express on the 737-200. He told me and the Capt. that Delta offered them atleast Preferential hiring because date of hire was crazy. He brought it to the attention of the senior guys and they said no. The real reason is that they wouldn't want to be MD88 FO's---they NEED to be Capt. I jumped on an ASA RJ with the #1 senority pilot and he said to me that he expected to retire as a Delta 737-800 Capt flying to Central America----and he was 56 years old at the time. That is nuts. Everyone has a chance to try to get an interview. Some people don't want to take a chance for that one year of lower pay--even though it will triple the next year. Some guys don't want to give up weekends. And, there are the guys/girls that took a chance, got an interview somehow, did well enough, and got hired. The EX-Comair System chief in CVG took the chance and he got hired, and went to the bottom as an Express 737-200 FO. That is the way it works. And, by the way, you did lose your strike. I am not making fun of you, but you did. But you fail to realize that we did want you to win. We wanted you to get more pay and a better lifestyle. Why wouldn't we? Don't get paranoid on me. We supported you in your time of need---that is a fact. And I still don't understand why our MEC would want to shame your MEC or only side with ASA? I beleive he asked your MEC about helping our furloughed guys/girls out while you were hiring so much. Your MEC still said no. He said No to helping our people in their time of need. You gain 8% of our total flying and you think we are treating you poorly. Nope.

Otto,

I can see your frustration, which leads me to believe that you can see the total picture. Just like you are frustrated with this, so am I. I have lots of friends that are furloughed that cannot get a job anywhere because they are Delta pilots, and that most employers know that they will leave someday to go back to Delta. So, what options do they have? McDonalds? A lot of them would love to fly for Comair or ASA, and some actually did. But, they cannot even go to the bottom of your list. Our MEC supposedly tried to ask your MEC for some relief, but he gave some major concessions that were impossible--like getting rid of Scope and unlimited 70 seaters and maybe 90 seaters. Well, you might as well get rid of the high paying jobs at Delta if you do that. I guess letting the total flying go from 36% to 44% wasn't good enough for him. I know that you didn't have a say, but it is good that you tried. A lot of us asked our MEC leaders to ask your Comair MEC, and that is why he did. I keep telling guys like Afellowaviator that we had a No Furlough Clause that seemed great, but no one saw 9-11 coming, and that wasn't the MEC's fault. He is doing the best he can to try to help our furloughed pilots get something, and we all are paying for their Cobra payments, which is the least we can do. We are frustrated like you, but the common thing that is left is that 1015 of our people are out on the street, and they cannot go to Comair, but they were allowed at ASA. (All 13 of them---which is better than none)
It all comes down to helping those in need, and like or not we did help you when you needed it. That is our point. Will your MEC change his mind? Probably not. It is too bad the top 100 guys at Comair are ruining it for the bottom 1500. That's what it looks like.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

. And, by the way, you did lose your strike.


OK, Since you are so knowledgable about our strike,.tell me, what was in the first offer. What was our counter. Now. what about the second offer? The other one we voted down. And what was the difference between the first final offer and the second final offer we voted down? And what gains, specifically, did we wind up with? What was the pay scale before we signed the new contract? What is the pay scale now? What did we gain in scheduling of reserves? What did we gain in scheduling over all? What kind of commuter policy did we have before? What do we have now? How do our rigs work now compared to how they use to work?

I would guess you can't answer these questions. I must say, it takes a clueless, pompous ass to make that kind of statement to a group of pilots who walked the line for 89 days. Pilots who were willing to put it all on the line to better the profession. I don't think I like you much. Your an insulting, very small man. At least our pilot group had the balls to walk, unlike yours. You guys were so scared of Bush, it was shameless.My best friend is a Delta pilot. He still has not forgiven those,"spineless cowards", as he calls them, for folding.




Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

A small man, eh? Ummm,ok?? Anyways... Well, fact is I don't know much about your "winnings" from your strike. All I remember was that you guys gave up when Delta said they were going to sell off your planes. Hey, I don't blame you for coming back---you had to. And, we all thought you did your best, but they brought you back for less than you initially wanted. That happens. We still supported you--yes we did. And, how do you know that I have never walked the line, or did some info picketing? I flew for a regional too. And, by the way, Bush would never have let us stike in the first place. Look what happened to the AA guys who did a sick out----they were fined something like $50 Million. Do you have that type of cash? Does ALPA? Probably not. Would we liked to have walked if needed? You bet. Could we? Nope. That was the way it was in 2000. And look now, we are the highest paid, even if we give in alittle in concessions, we will still be paid the most. That is the way it is--not trying to be cocky or anything. DALPA helped with that a lot.
I think this topic is getting away from the original topic of Comair not letting Delta furloughed guys on the property. I think I will stop posting because this is getting off base. Good luck with everything.

Bye Bye-----General Lee

 

[P38JLightning]

ATTN: DAL737FO

You said:
"As for P-38 and his labor law suit go for it..."

Please reread the post in question, as well as the preceeding and following posts. I was not advocating any lawsuit, but rather pointing out how insane either lawsuit (the RJDC as well as suing for the so called blacklist) is or would be, and that how they both would be morally indefensibile and legally flawed.

I believe you owe me an apology brother.

 

[RJPilott]

"And what gains, specifically, did we wind up with?"


Lots of "We"s and "gains"in your post there Fellow. I remember it was "We", ACA, that you said held you "back". Are you now saying that you gained so much because of ACA? Or do you feel you lost your contract when talking to ACA pilot yet feel you won when talking to Delta pilots? Which is it? Remember your posts blasting ACA pilots for caving in just "10 short months"? Do you now think you "won" your contract all on your own when you are on the flip side of a debate? Do you still blame ACA for holding you back, i mean, you got all those "gains" in your new contract. Now all of a sudden YOU are responsible for "gains" in pay, scheduling, commuting policy, etc etc? Geee, your coin really flips well. Keep the name calling to a minimum bro. Your professionalism is showing.... too funny... and you train Comair pilots?

(Disclaimer: in no way is this directed towards the Comair pilot group. I have many buddies flying for Comair and I talk with many Comair pilots daily which are very professional and courteous)

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

"And what gains, specifically, did we wind up with?"


Lots of "We"s and "gains"in your post there Fellow. I remember it was "We", ACA, that you said held you "back".




Never said you held us back. I said you did not help in any way by folding after 10 short months. If it we not for your sub standard contract, we possibly would of been on strike a less amount of time. I remember all the grumblings from our pilots every time the ACA+1% WAS THROWN IN OUR FACE. The ACA pilots were even booed at one of our meetings when we were told that mgt. was using your contract as a bases for there offer.






Are you now saying that you gained so much because of ACA? Or do you feel you lost your contract when talking to ACA pilot yet feel you won when talking to Delta pilots? Which is it?





No one is a winner when you are forced out on strike. The emotional and financial strain are tremendous.




Remember your posts blasting ACA pilots for caving in just "10 short months"? Do you now think you "won" your contract all on your own when you are on the flip side of a debate? Do you still blame ACA for holding you back, i mean, you got all those "gains" in your new contract.


Yes, we got quite a few gains, and over all we are generally happy. Remember, in negotiations, you shoot for the moon and get what you can. The fact still remains that because you guys rolled over so easily, we had to remain on strike longer to acheive those gains.The first and second offer we voted down were a mirror image of your contract, plus 1%.



Now all of a sudden YOU are responsible for "gains" in pay, scheduling, commuting policy, etc etc?


Whats your point? We fought hard for those things. You can name call all you want, but those are my opinions, like it or not.
QUOTE]

 

[RJPilott]

Never said you held us back. I said you did not help in any way by folding after 10 short months. If it we not for YOUR sub standard contract, WE possibly would of been on strike a less amount of time.





QUOTE]

LOL... you are too much....

If you had waited to help me over the fence, i could have gotten over that fence. But you never "held me back" even though you didnt help and im still on the same side of the fence without your help. Im not dumb, im just stupid.....

Why didnt you stay on strike longer to to break the mold and go for broke? Like i said in our last round of debates. Can we blame Comair if we only get Comair+1% on our next contract since you guys gave up after only 89 days? I mean if you're gonna strike, do it right.. right? Pleeeeeeease......


again, not directed towards the Comair pilot group.

Ok, im done with you Fellow.. for now. But i will be watching your numerous contradictions along the way when im bored at home. Its kinda fun...

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Demeaning the Comair pilot group will not score you any points. Your vulger and unprofessional. It kills me to hear people like you attacking our pilot group and offering your version of how long we should of been on strike. I will take it with a grain of salt and consider the source.

You better not burn too many bridges. The way it looks, UAL is shopping you guys around. Like I said before when some one was asking about which company would be more secure, ACA or Comair, you guys may be in some big trouble over there if United replaces you, like they have threatened.


And as I said before, I never said you held us back, you just caused us to be on strike longer because we had to fight your pathetic 10 month contract. Cheers and good luck with that United thing.