DAL - Pilot showdown

[Chuck Yogourt]

Chuckie never got back to my original questions

long live 350DRIVER

Here's your answer. UP YOUR'S. There, you happy. Enjoy your paycut.

 

[ACAFool]

Not to defend Chuck at all. But, perhaps some of the people who don't show much compassion to Delta are the ones who remember Eastern and CAL. Delta pilots were some of the first to tell them to hold the line and take one for the team. And I do not believe many people outside of Delta would argue that Delta pilots have been the most arrogant group in the industry for years. Though lately it seems any arrogance they lost was quickly snatched up by many SWA guys. Now they have that I'm invincible attitude, that only time will shatter. However, I am behind the Delta guys 100%. After all, we now need you to draw that line in the sand and say enough is enough.

 

[TriStar_drvr]

Delta: Strike Would Be 'Murder-Suicide'
By HARRY R. WEBER (AP Business Writer)
From Associated Press
November 14, 2005 1:08 PM EST

ATLANTA - Delta Air Lines Inc. said Monday that if its pilots strike should their contract be rejected in bankruptcy court, it would be "murder-suicide" and in effect put the nation's third-largest carrier out of business.
The comments by the Atlanta-based airline came two days before a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge in New York will hold a hearing to discuss Delta's request to reject its pilots' collective bargaining agreement.
Delta said in the filing that if its motion is granted, it will impose $325 million in concessions it is seeking from its pilots.
The Air Line Pilots Association, which represents Delta's 6,000 pilots, has raised the prospect of a strike if the contract is rejected by the court, and it has scheduled a rally for Tuesday to defend the contract.
But in its filing Monday, Delta said a strike would be disastrous and, it maintains, illegal.
"ALPA devotes substantial space in its objection to the balance of the equities, using as its centerpiece a 'murder-suicide' threat," the airline wrote. "Deny the motion to reject, the court is told, or the association will call a post-rejection strike that will kill the company and eliminate every pilot job - indeed every Delta job."
Delta argued in the filing that the Railway Labor Act prevents the pilots from striking.
"Even if the threat were realistic - even if Delta's pilots seriously intended to put the company into liquidation rather than agree to needed concessions - the threat would be a hollow one," the airline wrote.
A union spokesman did not immediately return a call Monday seeking comment.
Even though it believes it's on solid legal ground, Delta said it can't predict whether it will be able to prevent or stop a strike if its pilots choose to walk off the job if their contract is thrown out in bankruptcy court.
Delta said in its quarterly report to the Securities and Exchange Commission earlier Monday that it believes a strike by its pilots would be illegal, but at the same time it warned that it doesn't know if it would be able to get a court order to stop it.
"In addition, if we or our affiliates are unable to reach agreement with any of our unionized work groups on future negotiations regarding terms of their collective bargaining agreements, or if additional segments of our work force become unionized, we may be subject to work interruptions or stoppages," Delta said.
Delta said it needs the $325 million in concessions it is seeking from its pilots as part of its recovery. The pilots have offered $90.7 million in average annual concessions over four years.
Delta said in Monday's bankruptcy court filing that it offered the union on Friday to reduce the pay reduction portion of its concessions proposal from 19.5 percent to 19 percent, but with other changes that would actually increase the value of the concessions to $326.2 million.
The cuts would be on top of $1 billion in annual concessions the pilots agreed to in a five-year deal reached in 2004. That deal included a 32.5 percent pay cut.
In Monday's SEC filing, Delta also said it can't predict whether its defined benefit pension plan will continue when it emerges from Chapter 11. Delta pilots have tried without success to get the company to continue making certain contributions to the pension plan during the bankruptcy case.
Delta estimates that its funding requirements under its defined benefit pension plan are roughly $3.4 billion between 2006-2008. The cash-strapped airline said it may be required to fully fund required contributions at the time it exits bankruptcy if it decides to keep the plan going.
Delta, which filed for Chapter 11 on Sept. 14, has recorded losses of more than $11 billion since January 2001 and over that period has announced that it would cut up to 33,000 jobs. Its loss in the third quarter, reported Thursday, was $1.13 billion.

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How sad. Just a couple months ago I went through the same thing with ATA. I predict the same thing that happened to us will probably happen to the pilots at Delta.

First, the judge will not rule on the 1113 motion, but will send the union and pilots off to negotiate for up to 30 more days. During that time, Delta pilots will cast a strike vote, and there will be much blustery talk of "shutting the place down" if management abrogates the contract. Meanwhile, the union and the company will produce a TA that is only marginally better than what Delta proposed in its 1113 filing. Finally in spite of having cast a majority of votes in favor of a strike, the Delta pilots will then vote in the POS TA, having taken it up the shorts like the rest of us. Unfortunately, it won't even end there. Just when you think that it couldn't get any worse, the company will come back and tell you that in spite of all the concessions you have just given, it will be necessary to furlough another 10-15% of the pilot workforce.

Best of luck to the Delta pilots. It's not going to be pretty.


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

 

[737 Pylt]

upchuck

Or better yet, How about a 717 captain who hasn't had to take a pay cut, and, has a few ex PanAm friends who are loving this Chapter 11 thing with Delta. Ask them how it feels. It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

The funny thing is Chuck.. We may go chp7 liquidation, we may all be out of a job.. We may even have to start new careers...I'm okay with all that. I know that I will wake up tomorrow morning and all will be just fine. You, however, no matter what happens, will still be an A$$HOLE!
737
And to answer everyone's question, no, I don't think the pilots will strike. Just take it in the shorts just like every other airline. But that's just one pilots' opinion.

 

[On Your Six]

The funny thing is Chuck.. We may go chp7 liquidation, we may all be out of a job.. We may even have to start new careers...I'm okay with all that. I know that I will wake up tomorrow morning and all will be just fine. You, however, no matter what happens, will still be an A$$HOLE!
737
And to answer everyone's question, no, I don't think the pilots will strike. Just take it in the shorts just like every other airline. But that's just one pilots' opinion.

I think a strike is always a possibility. The company is going for far too much (more than what is necessary to keep DAL competitive) and the pilots are the easiest target for cost reductions. I love how Delta portrays the "average" pilot salary at a certain level - of course a statistic that is outdated and reflects the pilot group before the big retirement push when Captains were easily making $300K+. The average pilot wage now would be much lower but you would never see that figure in the press... Great spin job from DAL management...

 

[banger]

I think Chuckie Boy's mom ran off with an AirTran pilot, and now his dad lost his job driving the lav truck, and can't afford Chuckie's Ritalin anymore.

Good one!

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Or better yet, How about a 717 captain who hasn't had to take a pay cut

Chuck,

From one "family" member to another, please show some compassion. We at Midwest aren't quite out of the woods yet either.

HMM

 

[Archie Bunker]

First, the judge will not rule on the 1113 motion, but will send the union and pilots off to negotiate for up to 30 more days. During that time, Delta pilots will cast a strike vote, and there will be much blustery talk of "shutting the place down" if management abrogates the contract. Meanwhile, the union and the company will produce a TA that is only marginally better than what Delta proposed in its 1113 filing. Finally in spite of having cast a majority of votes in favor of a strike, the Delta pilots will then vote in the POS TA, having taken it up the shorts like the rest of us. Unfortunately, it won't even end there. Just when you think that it couldn't get any worse, the company will come back and tell you that in spite of all the concessions you have just given, it will be necessary to furlough another 10-15% of the pilot workforce.

Best of luck to the Delta pilots. It's not going to be pretty.


Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Tristar,

Unfortunately, I believe your prediction concerning what will happen to us in the next month or so is 100% spot on.

I would be surprised to see that the pilots even had the cajones to vote to authorize a strike, let alone actually walk the line. While there is a lot of sabre rattling going on here and on the DALPA boards, there are plenty of scared pilots out there that haven't made any contingency plans, and would never even think of voting to strike. I mean, $160 an hour as a 777 Capt is still, well, $160 an hour, right? For the typical year 5 or 6 MD-88 F/O out there, the choice to walk or not is a bit easier. Many of us were furloughed for 2 1/2 to 3 years, and had to find other jobs. I came back to Delta last year thinking that the company was on the rebound. Obviously, my crystal ball was clouded, and I should have stayed put in my non flying job making more money than at Delta, being home every night, and having weekends/holidays off.

$70 something an hour, along with all the other trash in this concession package, is not enough to keep me or many of my compadres from walking. I know that I can do better. In fact, every junior guy that I talk to is actively seeking other employment (in and out of aviation). This job just isn't worth it anymore.

The next month will be an interesting one in Delta's history. Time will tell if your predictions (accurate, in my opinion) were correct or not.

Archie

 

[Pat Fabin]

I must say this has been one of the most fun-to-read Delta threads in a long time! The thread creep was fantastic...and nobody even mentioned the RJDC!

Oh, can we stop calling it 'mother Delta'? Whenever a grown man says that it just sounds gay.

Carry on,
-PF

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah, would your momma treat you like that? How about Step Mother or Mother-in-law Delta.