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DAL - Pilot showdown

SWA/FO

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AP
Pilot Showdown Looms for Bankrupt Delta
Sunday November 13, 2:15 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer Big Week Ahead for Delta As Showdown With Pilots Looms; Bankruptcy Hearing Set for Wednesday
ATLANTA (AP) -- A pivotal week is ahead for Delta Air Lines Inc. The struggling carrier may release more details about its finances in a regulatory filing Monday, its pilots plan a rally Tuesday to defend their contract and a bankruptcy hearing is set for Wednesday to discuss whether to void that contract and allow the company to impose deep pay and benefit cuts.
There's a lot at stake as the pilots have raise the prospect of a strike if the court rejects their contract. Whether they are able to do so legally, however, is a matter open for question.
"I tend to think they probably are," said William Rochelle, a bankruptcy lawyer in New York who represents a major creditor in the Delta case. "If not, I think there's a new form of slavery in the United States."
At Wednesday's hearing in New York, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Prudence Carter Beatty is expected to hear arguments from lawyers for Delta and the Air Line Pilots Association, the union that represents the Atlanta-based company's 6,000 pilots.
The judge could decide immediately on the company's request to void the pilot contract, though most people connected to the case believe she will give the sides up to 30 more days to reach an agreement before deciding on her own.
The company wants $325 million in new concessions from its pilots, which would include a 19.5 percent pay cut. The pilots union has proposed $90.7 million in average annual concessions over four years, which would include a 9 percent pay cut effective Dec. 1 to last for seven months, followed by 7 percent for six months, then 5 percent thereafter.
The cuts would be on top of $1 billion in annual concessions the pilots agreed to in a five-year deal reached in 2004. That deal included a 32.5 percent pay cut.
Delta pilots currently earn an average of $169,393 a year, according to a company bankruptcy court filing. The document says the figure is a projection based on year-to-date actual earnings by people employed throughout last year and up to Sept. 16 of this year. It does not include proposed pilot pay rate reductions. Junior pilots make considerably less, while senior pilots in some cases make more. The type of aircraft a pilot flies also is a factor in the pay scale.
The company doesn't want a strike, and the pilots have made clear they don't want a judge throwing out their contract. But the pilots have pointed to their past sacrifices and argued that the new cuts they are offering are more than enough to help Delta become profitable again and compete with low-cost rivals.
If the decision gets to the judge, it's not a given how she would rule, though she indicated in an unrelated Delta bankruptcy hearing Thursday that she believes Delta's pilots are overpaid.
"The only people that make more money than Delta's pilots are you," Beatty told lawyers and company executives in the courtroom.
But Beatty also questioned the merits of Delta's business plan, specifically its decision to expand its international flights. "I don't think a business plan is one you just put down on paper," the judge said.
So, what will happen?
"That's a hard one," Rochelle said. "So far, the track record shows in the overwhelming number of cases the two sides agree without the court imposing new terms of employment. If you're a betting man, you follow the odds."
One thing that is clear is the pilots, the only major unionized group at Delta, have promised to fight to protect their contract. On the day before the bankruptcy hearing, the union has scheduled a rally at a suburban Atlanta convention center. Union officials are encouraging as many members and their spouses as possible to attend.
The airline's big week starts with the release of its quarterly report to the Securities and Exchange Commission. In the report, Delta could release more details about its financial condition.
The company said it delayed the filing until then in part because since its Sept. 14 bankruptcy petition it has been engaged in discussions with creditors, financial institutions, its employees and others regarding issues related to the Chapter 11 case.
Delta, the nation's third-largest carrier, has recorded losses of more than $11 billion since January 2001 and over that period has announced that it would cut up to 33,000 jobs. Its loss in the third quarter, reported Thursday, was $1.13 billion.
AP Business Writer Madlen Read contributed to this report from New York.
 
C

Chuck Yogourt

Oh how the mighty have fallen. Better start putting those vacation homes up for sale.
 

General Lee

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Thanks Upchuck for that great remark. Yeah, I remember being responsible for that fall from grace. I remember telling Leo Mullin to buy $2 billion worth of Delta stock (instead of paying off debt) a few months before 9-11, and then watching it vaporize after the stock tanked a few months later. I told him to do that......I should get a bonus!


As far as the court hearings, it will be interesting. This last quarter showed an apparent loss of $1.3 billion, even though most was charges due to bankruptcy (terminating leases etc), which really resulted in a loss of about $482 million I believe, and that was less than the $580 million during last year's same quarter, and that was because of high fuel. Without the fuel, we would have made a profit. So, if fuel does stay high at above $60 a barrel, then we should chip in a bit to help. If fuel stays below that mark, we should be ok. I hope Dalpa points that out, but the judge obviously has her own opinions.

I think we all know that there may be more pay cuts in our future, but the other stuff--sick leave, scope, 100 seat rate (needs to increase a bit), are the main things we are mad about. And, I don't really know what will happen if things go south. We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

AAflyer

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Chuck Yogourt said:
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Better start putting those vacation homes up for sale.


Kudos Chuck,

The professional in you has shown again.

AA
 

General Lee

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"Delta pilots currently earn an average of $169,393 a year, according to a company bankruptcy court filing. The document says the figure is a projection based on year-to-date actual earnings by people employed throughout last year and up to Sept. 16 of this year."


The problem with that statement is that this last year was great for many senior pilots. With the 2300 Captain retirements, many many captains did very well because crew scheduling always called them with Green Slips (double pay until last December, and then 1 1/2 pay), or they just pulled them from the jetways after their trips ended and gave them inverse assignments (double pay). This did not happen to hardly any FOs, unless there was a shortage on certain equipment due to training. So, all this means is that the $169,000 average is INFLATED due to most captains getting extra pay due to pilot (captain) shortages, and a lot of them are now gone. This inflated average is NOT THE NORM, but the judge may think it is. That needs to be pointed out too. We are parking some planes and many displacements will occur, so those inflated rates may not be seen again for a long time.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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737 Pylt

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Chuck Yogourt said:
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Better start putting those vacation homes up for sale.

Chuck:
I can only assume by your profile that you are an air midwest pilot. Quit talking out of your nut drainer, you're making air midwest pilots look like jerks.
737
 
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Chuck Yogourt

737 Pylt said:
Chuck:
I can only assume by your profile that you are an air midwest pilot. Quit talking out of your nut drainer, you're making air midwest pilots look like jerks.
737

You assumed wrong. Get ready to make Air Midwest wages though. You guys are going to take it in the shorts. Tooo bad. Whaaaa.
 

satpak77

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Chuck Yogourt said:
You assumed wrong. Get ready to make Air Midwest wages though. You guys are going to take it in the shorts. Tooo bad. Whaaaa.

350DRIVER is back

this username was obtained back in June huh 350?

must have a list of them on standby
 
C

Chuck Yogourt

satpak77 said:
350DRIVER is back

this username was obtained back in June huh 350?

must have a list of them on standby

Your wrong also. Why do you Delta boys get so uptight? You will survive. After your pensions are picked up by us tax payers that is. Before you spout off and take the high and mighty trail again, take a look at what got you to this point. AirTran looks better all the time.
 

islandhopper

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Chuck Yogourt said:
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Better start putting those vacation homes up for sale.
Thats BULL$HIT !!! The Delta pilots are more than likely going to follow our lead in Hawaii.

NO CONTRACT NO PILOTS NO AIRLINE

When we walked the line we had 100% of the pilots not flying that day show up for informational picketing. Guys commuted in from outer islands and the mainland to walk the line. Pilots also came out before or after work to walk the line. It was SOLID. The UNITY was something to behold.

http://starbulletin.com/2005/10/28/business/story02.html
 
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satpak77

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Chuck Yogourt said:
Your wrong also. Why do you Delta boys get so uptight? You will survive. After your pensions are picked up by us tax payers that is. Before you spout off and take the high and mighty trail again, take a look at what got you to this point. AirTran looks better all the time.

you must have changed your mind since 7-5-05, where you post your are a "senior" MidEx Captain

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=669323#post669323

Why don't you Air Tran folks ask your management why they are cutting back on flights in Milwaukee? Also, while you are at it, ask Northwest why they can't compete on the same routes with Midex. Midwest carries over 50% of the MKE and northern Ill. traffic. Also, Kansas City is improving beyond the companys expectations? Why? Because once you fly on all first class airline and not treated like a "airline passenger", you come back and you tell your friends. Once you fly on Midwest, everyone else, especially you low cost guys, suck. Just an observation from an old fart who happens to be a senior captain at Midex.

However, when you told 737Pylt in this very thread that you were NOT one...

You assumed wrong. Get ready to make Air Midwest wages though. You guys are going to take it in the shorts. Tooo bad. Whaaaa.

still having BiPolar issues regarding AirTran, you decide to bash them in this post

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=702191#post702191

No offense to any Air Tran pilots but I would have to think long and hard about leaving a current job to go there, the way things look.

Back to telling everyone about your "senior" status on this post

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=714880#post714880

Very interesting article. I look forward to telling you Air Tran boys to raise my gear. I have over 15 years with Midex and that's way more than your most senior captain so move over or FORGET IT. WE DON'T WANT YOU.

Dude I recommend counseling for your internal struggles and issues. What happened between you and your parents is not our fault.

Good luck in your endeavors
 

sleepy

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737 Pylt said:
Chuck:
I can only assume by your profile that you are an air midwest pilot. Quit talking out of your nut drainer, you're making air midwest pilots look like jerks.
737

What about AirTran?
 

RS6

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When the first case of bird flu gets here by way of an airliner, no one will have to worry about any of this crap.

And it's gonna happen.

This will pale in comparision to the next terrorist attack.
 
C

Chuck Yogourt

satpak77 said:
you must have changed your mind since 7-5-05, where you post your are a "senior" MidEx Captain

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=669323#post669323



However, when you told 737Pylt in this very thread that you were NOT one...



still having BiPolar issues regarding AirTran, you decide to bash them in this post

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=702191#post702191



Back to telling everyone about your "senior" status on this post

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=714880#post714880



Dude I recommend counseling for your internal struggles and issues. What happened between you and your parents is not our fault.

Good luck in your endeavors

Hey Numbnuts,

There is a difference between "Air Midwest" and "Midwest Airlines". Can you figure that out or do you need to go research some more of my posts. I recommend finacial counseling for you. You are gonna need it.
 

satpak77

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Chuck Yogourt said:
Hey Numbnuts,

There is a difference between "Air Midwest" and "Midwest Airlines". Can you figure that out or do you need to go research some more of my posts. I recommend finacial counseling for you. You are gonna need it.

so which one do you work for? the forum wants to know. Put it to rest right now, who do you work for.
 

satpak77

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still waiting Chuckie....its not that hard....I see on your profile you are "viewing this thread" for about 10 freaking minutes

not that hard....
 
C

Chuck Yogourt

satpak77 said:
so which one do you work for? the forum wants to know. Put it to rest right now, who do you work for.

What do you care for? I work for a company that is not in CHAPTER 11.
 
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