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DAL merger ?

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Ex737Driver said:
Merge...........did you say merge?.............Nope. You had your chance in '98. We are waiting for you to file and we will pull a Delta and only take the aircraft we want and that will fit CAL. The 737(no -200), 757 and 767. MD-80's and MD-11's are parked. Time to bid Boeing at DAL. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p


Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan, but would leave gaping holes in our route structure. I think the MD88s will be replaced eventually anyway by 73Ns, but you do not just park that many planes and expect Airtran or SW or JB not to strike. Won't happen IMO. How many of your guys will be retiring in the next 5 years? Bonanza! Looks like you and I will be doing Dehli trips from EWR. I am a '96 hire.....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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At least you got the "Sarcastic" smiles! I'll see you on the TLV 4 day. We can both IRO.
 
Ex737Driver said:
At least you got the "Sarcastic" smiles! I'll see you on the TLV 4 day. We can both IRO.

You know I am just joking here. I have no clue what will happen, and at least your company has called back all of your furloughs. We are still in the process of what seems like an eternity.

I'll buy the beer on the HKG 4 day, or maybe the PEK 4 day. Take care.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Are you serious? What about USAir/AWA? They have no overlapping routes(hubs). Do NW and DL? CAL and DL do have problems, mainly NYC. But, NW and DAL do not. UAL and USAir had DC as a problem--a monopoly. They stated that one would have to sell a large chunk, and they came up with DC Air. But, the employees nixed that idea. I think the Gov't today would be much more favorable to mergers with conditions, rather than have large liquidations and pi$$ed off employees who vote.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok, well I guess we will see.
 
AM Radio

Jumping in late here,

WHO LISTENS TO AM RADIO?!!!

Up here in the big Apple, we're fortunate not to have jive-a$$ talkin preachers all over the AM dial. We've got great sports talk radio, Bloomberg business news, and most importantly for pilots: metro traffic reports on the 1s, 5s, and 8s.

Nothin like listening to a baseball game on the AM dial while soaking rays on the beach.
;)
 
General,

You really don't have clue what Delta management is thinking. By the way, NWA would be the carrier in control if a merger were to happen. Bye bye to MEM and CVG is a lame guess.

Go ahead and post every two seconds on this forum but basically you are no one without a clue. Time will tell what happens to Delta but it certainly won't be you who has any input or even knowledge of what's to come. Get a life.
 
TIGV said:
Who the @#$% listens to @#$%-ing AM ?????? For Pete's sake !!!

The only thing AM used to be good for is hosting all the Jesus channels, now, they too have made it to FM and I have gone Sat radio to escape and in a few years, when Hale-Bop comes back I'm catching a ride off this weird planet, I got my black sweats, change and white sneakers ready y'all !!!

( This is not a thread Hijack, This is nota thread Hijack, This is not a thread Hijack )

Jim Rome is on AM. Reason enough.
 
seefive said:
General,

You really don't have clue what Delta management is thinking. By the way, NWA would be the carrier in control if a merger were to happen. Bye bye to MEM and CVG is a lame guess.

Go ahead and post every two seconds on this forum but basically you are no one without a clue. Time will tell what happens to Delta but it certainly won't be you who has any input or even knowledge of what's to come. Get a life.


Ha ha. Can I have an opinion? You bet. Why CVG and MEM gone? Because MEM is too close to ATL(Which would stay), and CVG is too close to DTW(which would stay). Get it yet? Do you have a brain? This is just an EDUCATED GUESS. Would NW get rid of the largest hub in the world(ATL)? Nope. Would NW be the carrier in control? I hope so. Would they close ATL? No way. Are you figuring this out yet? MEM and ATL are one hour apart by air. MEM would be gone. CVG is also close to DTW---bye bye. Do I know what mangement is thinking? Well, the closest I can get to management is the ATL Chief Pilot, who attends regular meetings with the VP of Flt ops, who attends regular meetings with GG. A lot of what I spew on here are comments that come from people who really do have educated guesses. But, you are right, I have no real clue what management is thinking......... Can you debate any of that? Tell me why I would be wrong. Can you? Nope. What was your name again? I guess you are the "nobody."



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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General Lee said:
Ha ha. Can I have an opinion? You bet. Why CVG and MEM gone? Because MEM is too close to ATL(Which would stay), and CVG is too close to DTW(which would stay). Get it yet? Do you have a brain? This is just an EDUCATED GUESS. Would NW get rid of the largest hub in the world(ATL)? Nope. Would NW be the carrier in control? I hope so. Would they close ATL? No way. Are you figuring this out yet? MEM and ATL are one hour apart by air. MEM would be gone. CVG is also close to DTW---bye bye. Do I know what mangement is thinking? Well, the closest I can get to management is the ATL Chief Pilot, who attends regular meetings with the VP of Flt ops, who attends regular meetings with GG. A lot of what I spew on here are comments that come from people who really do have educated guesses. But, you are right, I have no real clue what management is thinking......... Can you debate any of that? Tell me why I would be wrong. Can you? Nope. What was your name again? I guess you are the "nobody."



Bye Bye--General Lee


I bet they get tired of you hanging around the office putting apples on their desks while trying to pump them for info.
 
IB6 UB9 said:
I bet they get tired of you hanging around the office putting apples on their desks while trying to pump them for info.

No, I always bring them Chinese food. It works.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
"Would NW be the carrier in control? I hope so."

General, what are you smoking? Hopefully something akin to crack. You are way too pumped about a merger with anyone. Don't you have any buds from TWA? '96 may not keep you off the streets.

Grinder
 
We can only hope Delta does not get more involved with Northwest. The NW/Republic merger was one of the ugliest ever. Delta needs to get it's stuff together on its own and begin to kick ass again....and it will.
 
grinder said:
"Would NW be the carrier in control? I hope so."

General, what are you smoking? Hopefully something akin to crack. You are way too pumped about a merger with anyone. Don't you have any buds from TWA? '96 may not keep you off the streets.

Grinder

Well, since AA was non ALPA, that has a lot to do with their bad situation. Also, maybe you haven't heard of the recent retirements here----1300 Captains in one year. If we do declare Chap 11, the pensions will be gone, prompting another 500 or so Captains to go early (1100 are over 50 and qualify to take their lump sums and run---I am just guessing at 500). I talked to a Captain that just turned 50, and he said he will go July 1st probably. Everytime a widebody Captain leaves, 10 or so people move up. You do the math. Delta has a larger retirement than the others because of the way our pensions are set up---with half allowed to be taken as a lump sum. Guys don't want to mess with that. I don't blame them, but I am 40 and I have some ways to go and might be able to make up the difference. A merger with another ALPA carrier wouldn't be a bad thing, and I like NW over CAL because I think the route structure would be perfect, with a large Pacific and European presence. CAL wouldn't be bad either because a lot of their pilots will be retiring soon. Sure, DL has to clean up its act, and it will.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
DAL Merger

General Lee:

Since you are only 40 years young, I doubt that you were around when we (Delta) merged with Northeast and Western. If you are interested, I still have some notes (Roar from 44, etc.) from those mergers concerning the seniority intergration. PM me if you are intrested. I retired (age 60) off the MD-11 in 1999.

PS - I sold the Mooney
 
mooney flier said:
General Lee:

Since you are only 40 years young, I doubt that you were around when we (Delta) merged with Northeast and Western. If you are interested, I still have some notes (Roar from 44, etc.) from those mergers concerning the seniority intergration. PM me if you are intrested. I retired (age 60) off the MD-11 in 1999.

PS - I sold the Mooney

I have flown with plenty of ex Western and even a few Pan Am guys. Sure, they weren't happy at all. I am saying I would prefer a merger to a liquidation. I hope it never gets to that point, and I hope we can stay one company forever. I don't know if that will happen this time, and I would prefer a merger with a strong partner than the worse alternative. That is my point here. Would I like DL to do great and for all of that debt to go away? Sure. I am not giddy about the prospects of any merger, but some alternatives would be worse. Congrats on retiring at age 60 and getting your lump sum. (Sorry about the Mooney)


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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TIGV said:
Who the @#$% listens to @#$%-ing AM ?????? For Pete's sake !!!

The only thing AM used to be good for is hosting all the Jesus channels, now, they too have made it to FM and I have gone Sat radio to escape and in a few years, when Hale-Bop comes back I'm catching a ride off this weird planet, I got my black sweats, change and white sneakers ready y'all !!!

( This is not a thread Hijack, This is nota thread Hijack, This is not a thread Hijack )

DORK.
 
One thing you can gurantee, weather it be CAL or NWA, The fences will be HUGE! No DAL pilot will ever see the left seat of a 747. How many 777's does CAL have vs DAL? Expect ratios to protect the CAL pilots career objectives.

http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=2nd/999359.html

The existing Delta pilots had to protect their own turf. They were understandably concerned that the APA and the integration of Pan Am pilots would dilute their own status on the Delta seniority list. After extensive analysis of the impact of various integration methodologies, Delta and ALPA(DAL MEC) eventually agreed on a "modified status ratio methodology" that would spread Pan Am pilots equitably throughout Delta's seniority list.

The starting point for the integration was the position held by the most senior Delta pilot of whatever aircraft was deemed to be most nearly equivalent to the A-310. Delta deemed its Boeing 767ER ("B-767ER") to be most equivalent to the A-310 because both were long-haul twin-engine aircraft, although the B-767ER was not cleared for over-ocean voyages. Delta's most senior B-767ER pilot occupied spot #590. Thereafter, the methodology separately integrated the Pan Am captains, first officers and flight engineers, according to a ratio based on the number of comparable positions expected to exist at Delta, in the absence of the APA, as of the end of 1992.2 Thus, the formula called for dividing the number of Delta captain positions (at B-767ER captain level and below) anticipated to exist as of the end of 1992 - that is, 3,360 - by the number of Pan Am captains eventually hired by Delta - 286. This resulted in a ratio of approximately twelve to one. Thus, one Pan Am captain was integrated after every twelve spots beneath #590 - at #603, #616, #629, #641 and so on. After all the Pan Am captains had been integrated, the Delta first officers and flight engineers were then ratioed with their acquired Pan Am counterparts, resulting in one Pan Am position being created after each ten or eleven Delta positions throughout the remainder of the seniority list.

While the modified status ratio methodology gave the acquired Pan Am pilots enhanced bidding seniority vis-a-vis new hires, it also resulted in placing many former Pan Am pilots in spots below Delta pilots with less cockpit experience. Thus, once they moved over to Delta, several Pan Am pilots were relegated to cockpit positions, aircraft, and routes less desirable than those they had flown at Pan Am. For example, some 55-year-old Pan Am pilots found themselves flying in positions junior to 35-year-old pilots who had been with Delta their entire career. However, the Pan Am pilots were integrated in seniority order - that is, within the integrated seniority list, and thus, Pan Am pilots maintained their seniority relative to other Pan Am pilots.

On August 30, 1991, Delta and ALPA (DAL MEC) entered into a supplemental collective bargaining agreement authorizing Delta to implement the modified status ratio methodology to integrate the Pan Am pilots into the Delta seniority list on November 1, 1991, the same day that the final aspects of the acquisition were scheduled to close.

The one thing you can count on in this industry is history repeating itself. Ask a TWA pilot how he thinks his seniority intergration went (which was mirrored after the one the DAL MEC came up with)? If I was a DAL pilot (and I was one once) I wouldn't be in such a rush to find another dance partner.
 
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Kellner was reportedly telling some flight instructors recently that CAL would not be interested in any deal with Delta. He mentioned their debt load of $22 billion, engine variance on fleet types compared to CAL and Delta's domestic structure made a merger not feasible. A bankruptcy filing would change the playing field.

Reference the Pan Am merger, what happend to the training department guys from Pan Am that pencil whipped their A310 type ratings to get brought aboard during the PAA buy out? I read an article in the WSJ many years ago about this but never heard another word.

My guess is everyone is waiting to see how the situation at UAL pans out. If the IAM walks, I believe it will lead to the liquidation of United. Then the remaining carriers will pick up the pieces. If UAL survives, I think we will see a merger between CO & greatly reduced UAL after their reorganization. The question there is who will present a real plan? At some point the creditors will run out of patience and press for their own plan. Parting out? Merger? All unknown, but this status quo with UAL is going to change sooner or later.

While Bethune was in charge, he made many comments about a combined CO/UAL and attempted several times to talk to Tilton but was rebuffed. He still has an "advisory" role in CAL.
 
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