DAL merger ?

[treetopflyer]

Ha ha. Can I have an opinion? You bet. Why CVG and MEM gone? Because MEM is too close to ATL(Which would stay), and CVG is too close to DTW(which would stay). Get it yet? Do you have a brain? This is just an EDUCATED GUESS. Would NW get rid of the largest hub in the world(ATL)? Nope. Would NW be the carrier in control? I hope so. Would they close ATL? No way. Are you figuring this out yet? MEM and ATL are one hour apart by air. MEM would be gone. CVG is also close to DTW---bye bye. Do I know what mangement is thinking? Well, the closest I can get to management is the ATL Chief Pilot, who attends regular meetings with the VP of Flt ops, who attends regular meetings with GG. A lot of what I spew on here are comments that come from people who really do have educated guesses. But, you are right, I have no real clue what management is thinking......... Can you debate any of that? Tell me why I would be wrong. Can you? Nope. What was your name again? I guess you are the "nobody."



Bye Bye--General Lee

unless they kept those "too close" hubs for the bypass point to point on song or jive or whatever else they want to call the domestic service in the futurama of airlines.

 

[sleeves]

Ha ha. Can I have an opinion? You bet.

Ya, but 4,770 of them?

 

[General Lee]

Ya, but 4,770 of them?

Well, were you a quiet child growing up? You only have 5 posts. Maybe I wasn't. Maybe I like expressing my opinion, and I also contributed to this website, so I have the right..... It is your choice to express yourself or not.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

One thing you can gurantee, weather it be CAL or NWA, The fences will be HUGE! No DAL pilot will ever see the left seat of a 747. How many 777's does CAL have vs DAL? Expect ratios to protect the CAL pilots career objectives.

http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=2nd/999359.html

The existing Delta pilots had to protect their own turf. They were understandably concerned that the APA and the integration of Pan Am pilots would dilute their own status on the Delta seniority list. After extensive analysis of the impact of various integration methodologies, Delta and ALPA(DAL MEC) eventually agreed on a "modified status ratio methodology" that would spread Pan Am pilots equitably throughout Delta's seniority list.

The starting point for the integration was the position held by the most senior Delta pilot of whatever aircraft was deemed to be most nearly equivalent to the A-310. Delta deemed its Boeing 767ER ("B-767ER") to be most equivalent to the A-310 because both were long-haul twin-engine aircraft, although the B-767ER was not cleared for over-ocean voyages. Delta's most senior B-767ER pilot occupied spot #590. Thereafter, the methodology separately integrated the Pan Am captains, first officers and flight engineers, according to a ratio based on the number of comparable positions expected to exist at Delta, in the absence of the APA, as of the end of 1992.2 Thus, the formula called for dividing the number of Delta captain positions (at B-767ER captain level and below) anticipated to exist as of the end of 1992 - that is, 3,360 - by the number of Pan Am captains eventually hired by Delta - 286. This resulted in a ratio of approximately twelve to one. Thus, one Pan Am captain was integrated after every twelve spots beneath #590 - at #603, #616, #629, #641 and so on. After all the Pan Am captains had been integrated, the Delta first officers and flight engineers were then ratioed with their acquired Pan Am counterparts, resulting in one Pan Am position being created after each ten or eleven Delta positions throughout the remainder of the seniority list.

While the modified status ratio methodology gave the acquired Pan Am pilots enhanced bidding seniority vis-a-vis new hires, it also resulted in placing many former Pan Am pilots in spots below Delta pilots with less cockpit experience. Thus, once they moved over to Delta, several Pan Am pilots were relegated to cockpit positions, aircraft, and routes less desirable than those they had flown at Pan Am. For example, some 55-year-old Pan Am pilots found themselves flying in positions junior to 35-year-old pilots who had been with Delta their entire career. However, the Pan Am pilots were integrated in seniority order - that is, within the integrated seniority list, and thus, Pan Am pilots maintained their seniority relative to other Pan Am pilots.

On August 30, 1991, Delta and ALPA (DAL MEC) entered into a supplemental collective bargaining agreement authorizing Delta to implement the modified status ratio methodology to integrate the Pan Am pilots into the Delta seniority list on November 1, 1991, the same day that the final aspects of the acquisition were scheduled to close.

The one thing you can count on in this industry is history repeating itself. Ask a TWA pilot how he thinks his seniority intergration went (which was mirrored after the one the DAL MEC came up with)? If I was a DAL pilot (and I was one once) I wouldn't be in such a rush to find another dance partner.

Ever heard of the "Dirty 30?" 30 very senior Pan Am 747 Captains "caught wind" that DL might only take certain fleets, like the Pan Am Shuttle. Those 30 pilots bid down to the 727 Captain, and displaced 30 other 727 Captains. After the aquisition, those ex 747 Captains immediately bid 767ER Captains out JFK and ended their careers as senior INTL Delta Captains.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[seefive]

General,

you're such a tool. Knew i'd get you to respond like the idiot you are. You obviously spend your life on this website indicating you actually have no life, no brain, and no future. You're pathetic.

 

[General Lee]

General,

you're such a tool. Knew i'd get you to respond like the idiot you are. You obviously spend your life on this website indicating you actually have no life, no brain, and no future. You're pathetic.

HAHHAHAHAHA. Look at you. You bring NOTHING to any debate. You are worthless. You make fun of me, but bring nothing. This is a rumor board and a place to bring up opinions and debate. I do just that, and I enjoy it. You obviously hate you own life. That is sad, especially since you are a nobody. Oh, you probably knew I would say that. Ok then. Bye Bye now.


Bye Bye (again)---General Lee

 

[pbruk]

Dukes of Hazzard car for sale
You could own and drive a real General Lee

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/14/pf/autos/hazzard/

 

[pbruk]

Can't we just all get along. Pretty soon we'll be working for the same airline anyway. As long as I get S3 priority, I'll be ok

 

[seefive]

HAHAHAHA. Look at you! Blah, blah, blah........

What an idiot your are. I'm enjoying the laugh you provide me. What's funnier than that is your 4,000+ posts.

 

[G4G5]

Ever heard of the "Dirty 30?" 30 very senior Pan Am 747 Captains "caught wind" that DL might only take certain fleets, like the Pan Am Shuttle. Those 30 pilots bid down to the 727 Captain, and displaced 30 other 727 Captains. After the aquisition, those ex 747 Captains immediately bid 767ER Captains out JFK and ended their careers as senior INTL Delta Captains.


Bye Bye--General Lee

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=2nd&navby=case&no=977666

30 of the biggest dirtbags that this industry has every seen!!!

Rather than informing the (Pan Am )pilots that a training plan had now been adopted, the MEC told the pilots that Delta was still open to alternative plans. They assured the pilots that Delta would listen to any plan designed to preserve the integrity of the seniority system. The (Pan Am )MEC also told the pilots that, rather than deciding which of the competing plans it would endorse, ALPA and the MEC would let an arbitrator decide which plan best served the union's interests. However, since Pan Am and ALPA had agreed in principle on a plan governing retraining on the A-310, the only issue presented to the arbitrator was the B-727 training. The arbitrator recommended a training plan for the B- 727 based on strict seniority.
Following the arbitrator's decision, ALPA, Pan Am, and Delta entered into a formal agreement defining the training for Pan Am pilots. ALPA agreed that the short course training would be used for the A-310, but a strict seniority system would be used to select pilots for B-727 training. The Bankruptcy Court approved this agreement. When Pan Am sold the planes and routes in November 1991, six of the seven MEC members were on the list of pilots to be transferred to Delta. Shortly thereafter, Pan Am went out of business.

These 30 dirtbags, six of which were Pan Mec members, sold their fellow pilots down the road. Then sent themselves to A310/727 training out of seniority, without a formal bid.

 

[grinder]

Also, maybe you haven't heard of the recent retirements here----1300 Captains in one year. If we do declare Chap 11, the pensions will be gone, prompting another 500 or so Captains to go early (1100 are over 50 and qualify to take their lump sums and run---I am just guessing at 500). I talked to a Captain that just turned 50, and he said he will go July 1st probably. Everytime a widebody Captain leaves, 10 or so people move up. You do the math. Delta has a larger retirement than the others because of the way our pensions are set up---with half allowed to be taken as a lump sum. Guys don't want to mess with that. I don't blame them, but I am 40 and I have some ways to go and might be able to make up the difference. A merger with another ALPA carrier wouldn't be a bad thing, and I like NW over CAL because I think the route structure would be perfect, with a large Pacific and European presence. CAL wouldn't be bad either because a lot of their pilots will be retiring soon. Sure, DL has to clean up its act, and it will.


Bye Bye--General Lee[/QUOTE]


Believe me, Gen., I've heard of all the retirements. In fact there have been so many, I've moved up around 2500 on the seniority list. Meanwhile my DAL/Comair uniform has dry-rotted. Looks like you figure you're sitting pretty. I've done the math and there are still going to be furloughed guys at Delta for some time to come. Every time a Captain leaves a couple guys move up but Delta hires another RJ crew at Chitaqua. Lets see how PBS pans out. I'm sure that will help. From the sound of it, you seem happy to give up the pension as well, so you can move up in seniority. You'll make up difference flying 100 hrs a month. Fortunately (hopefully), there's not too many of you guys.


Grinder

 

[~~~^~~~]

Grinder you make excellent points. General & the Delta MEC cheer more for the replacement of an ASA, or Comair, pilot by a non ALPA alter ego, than they do for the re-hire of a furloughed Delta brother.

This could be fixed, but arrogance and self interest continue to prevail every time ALPA makes a decision. As long as I get what I want.....

 

[FlyComAirJets]

It certainly explains why they were so nervous about merging the seniority lists after ASA and Comair were purchased, just look at what those evil Pan Am guys did! (As if Delta's pulling the economic rug out the rug out from under an ailing Pan Am was a noble thing to do)

But hey, they are sure showing us.

I guess the shoe is on the other hand now.