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DAL 100 Seat Scope Deal

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andyd

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Posts
312
Heard today that the Co approached Dalpa about 100 seat relief for a 22% pay increase. I hope this is just an ugly rumor but I heard it from someone on the 3rd floor and "in the know". Normally I wouldn't get worked up about hearsay but with the history of Dalpa signing LOA's first and informing/"consulting" later...has me worried. If this happens not only will we not hire for a decade, we could possibly end up furloughing. At the very least it would mean career stagnation for years. They can take the 22% and shove it IMHO.
 
andyd said:
Heard today that the Co approached Dalpa about 100 seat relief for a 22% pay increase. I hope this is just an ugly rumor but I heard it from someone on the 3rd floor and "in the know". Normally I wouldn't get worked up about hearsay but with the history of Dalpa signing LOA's first and informing/"consulting" later...has me worried. If this happens not only will we not hire for a decade, we could possibly end up furloughing. At the very least it would mean career stagnation for years. They can take the 22% and shove it IMHO.
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Yeah. What he Said!!!!!!!!!!!!!:angryfire
 
It's easy for the company to take pay back, but, as we all know, it's damned near impossible to get scope back.

They win, you lose.
 
If DALPA even considers responding with anything other than "Burn in H," I will personally insert an "Airline Pilot" magazine in every orifice of every representative we have.
 
Can you blame management for trying? With the history of DALPA, what do they have to lose? What's the percentage of outsourced domestic feed for Delta right now? 40% or so?
 
Not true, MEC chair Moak had an open a meeting (q&a) in MSP today, "Company has not approached us about any type of scope relief!" Check out the dalpa page for more info.
 
Andy;
This is flat out false. SD even stated yesterday at the LCA meeting that he would have had to have been in a meeting like that if it took place and he was at no such meeting.

This rumor is a bad one and over a month old. I think they realized with the few soft attacks last year that scope givebacks like that would cause more problems than they are worth.

Also, talk to your reps, the vast majority are on board with not letting anything like this get out of the MEC for Member Ratification. I sleep well knowing this.
 
ok thanks ACL, you know it's a sad state of affairs when I trust your word over the MEC's. Again, given the history of cloak and dagger LOA's signed and announced post signature...you can see why we are suspicious of rumors and subsequent denials. 63%, wow...that is just wrong.
 
andyd said:
Heard today that the Co approached Dalpa about 100 seat relief for a 22% pay increase. I hope this is just an ugly rumor but I heard it from someone on the 3rd floor and "in the know". Normally I wouldn't get worked up about hearsay but with the history of Dalpa signing LOA's first and informing/"consulting" later...has me worried. If this happens not only will we not hire for a decade, we could possibly end up furloughing. At the very least it would mean career stagnation for years. They can take the 22% and shove it IMHO.
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I am sure the general and scope al all for this. It is a 22 percent raise, no flying to LBB ( the 100 seater can do it ) and no pft :)
 
andyd said:
ok thanks ACL, you know it's a sad state of affairs when I trust your word over the MEC's. Again, given the history of cloak and dagger LOA's signed and announced post signature...you can see why we are suspicious of rumors and subsequent denials. 63%, wow...that is just wrong.
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Andy, who on the MEC told you anything about this? Really....

I ask because I talk to my reps and they know the ramifications of such.

I am sure that nothing OFFICIAL has been asked. Soft probing like last year, yes, of course. They want to see if there is a chance of this floating. I think they realized the response was overwhelming that it is not going to happen.

Is there a time and place that it may, yes. Are they going to OFFICIALLY ask at some point, yes. With the guys on our LEC here in ATL, combined wit the DTW, CVG, LAX, NYC, and MEM reps at a min I suspect that even if it got to the MEC for a vote it would fail.

The general consensus that I have gathered is that no one will accept a scope sale, but many do not want to buy back scope at the cost of their restoration efforts. Maybe as contracts come due, but not for 2012.

That said, DAL does need some apples to entice the FFD operators with to change the terms of these contracts. Bigger jets or more 76 seat jets makes a lot of sense. If they could dump them they would, but as they say a contract is a contract.
Best way to deal with it is to buy the airlines and dissolve em. Many of them can be bought at rock bottom prices.
 
63% of departures. Mainline has more ASM's. Remember that departures and block hrs equate to jobs, not ASM's. One 744 flying for 14 hrs has more ASM's than eight 50 seat RJ's flying all day long.
 
slaquer5 said:
I am sure the general and scope al all for this. It is a 22 percent raise, no flying to LBB ( the 100 seater can do it ) and no pft :)
Click to expand...

At least our MEC never supported a pft program where you had to buy your job to get hired!;)
 
slaquer5 said:
I am sure the general and scope al all for this. It is a 22 percent raise, no flying to LBB ( the 100 seater can do it ) and no pft :)
Click to expand...


Was that you trying to spread this dumb rumor? I told you it was FALSE. Sorry. Have fun this week with multiple AMA turns.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Was that you trying to spread this dumb rumor? I told you it was FALSE. Sorry. Have fun this week with multiple AMA turns.



Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...

I really hope you guys don't bite on any more scope relief. Your scope section is embarrassing.

Bye Bye,

IAHERJ
 
Our IRO ops....., are all but fixed. Our management has already shown that a return to previous IRO ops are going to happen. It almost happened outside of the contract negotiations but we didn't bite. Will your scope be changed as easy as our embarrassing IRO ops.....? Seriously?
 
slaquer5 said:
Easy, I sure hope your not on the way to climb up some tower, you nut job. I did not mean to upset the most bitter and unstable person on FI :)
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I sure hope you're not that stupid!:laugh: Of course anyone stupid enough to buy their job...............
Well, at least the pft got you through!
 
IAHERJ said:
Our IRO ops....., are all but fixed.
Click to expand...

Are your IRO's still deadheading over to europe for less than 8 hr flights?
Where? In biz or coach?
Our management has already shown that a return to previous IRO ops are going to happen.
Click to expand...
Like most things in aviation, I'll believe it when I see it.

It almost happened outside of the contract negotiations but we didn't bite.
Click to expand...
We'll see when/IF it takes effect.

Will your scope be changed as easy as our embarrassing IRO ops.....? Seriously?
Click to expand...
Seriously.....Probably. There are more small rj's (think 50 seats) coming out of the system this year.
You should also work on getting your new hires health benefits from DOH, not 6 months later. That's pretty embarrassing as well!
 
IAHERJ said:
I really hope you guys don't bite on any more scope relief. Your scope section is embarrassing.

Bye Bye,

IAHERJ
Click to expand...

How many of your 737-500s are being replaced by Dash-8-400s? Looks like you omitted that from your scope. EWR and now IAH. Your jets are not being replaced by 70 seat jets, but rather 70 seat PROPS! And their safety record aint great. Not good. It's spreading......and there is NOTHING you can do about it. The Dash-8-400s also take up more space at a gate than a 50 seater, so it is almost like having a 70 seat jet. Don't get cocky---just fix your lame contract soon. Not only are your bases krappy, but you have low pay, IROs in Coach, bad insurance for newhires, and a loophole for as many large props as they can fit into a ramp area. The truth hurts, doesn't it? But don't worry, if the UAL/USAir thing doesn't work out, maybe UAL and CAL can. That should make you feel better.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Spoken like a true self conscious prick. I make one comment firing back at your endless rant against CAL and you get your feeling hurt. See my reply to you on the other thread for more. General, you work for the largest airline in the world! There, you feel better now. We will fix our problems. I hope you do the same.

ByeBye......IAHERJ
 
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Scope out RJ's said:
Are your IRO's still deadheading over to europe for less than 8 hr flights?
Where? In biz or coach?

Like most things in aviation, I'll believe it when I see it.


We'll see when/IF it takes effect.


Seriously.....Probably. There are more small rj's (think 50 seats) coming out of the system this year.
You should also work on getting your new hires health benefits from DOH, not 6 months later. That's pretty embarrassing as well!
Click to expand...

We are aware of our issues. The company formally offered to return the the previous rest area over a year ago. Our union told them they were not interested in negotiating that item for an item the company wanted relief on at that time. It really happened. Instead of slapping us for our rest area not being in business first 100% of the time you should be applauding our pilots for not letting the company dangle that carrot in front of us in order to cave on something we hold much more higher; scope(the issue at hand was scope related albeit not of the RJ kind of scope). The funny thing is that it seems that you and the GL guy will find a way to bash whatever contract we end up getting instead of building on that and pattern bargaining forward for the good of the industry. It is a personal thing, isn't it.... When you two can't attack our contract(which we can control) you move on to our bases(that we cannot control). That is when you start to show your insecure side and lose the validity of your argument. We knew the bases when we accepted employment at CAL. And as for our 70 seat props, I'll take them any day over a 70 seat jet. They will continue to grow, yes. But they do less harm than a 70 seat jet as far as replacement flying goes. I don't like the idea of them replacing our 737-300/500's but that cat is out of the bag. Percentage wise, we are still better off than what has happened to other mainline carriers as far as replacement of mainline flying over the last decade. In fact, CAL is the only legacy airline that has grown domestic mainline ASMs over the last decade. Like I have said, and continue to say, we will get our house in order. Thanks for caring.



IAHERJ
 
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