Da Tranny to STL!

[Lear70]

That's Farmingdale, Long Island. I grew up around there.

Farmington is in New Mexico.

*snicker* that's what happens when I get to typing too fast.

Funny thing is, I was based there flying Lears for a year back in 2000, I should know better.

 

[waveoff]

HPN sucks.

I love being the first to call for taxi then being told to pull into the runup pad on a clear day with no flow control to PHL or CLT so a couple Gulfstreams, a King Air, and a whole gaggle of Netjets airplanes can depart before us.

RJs don't even get priority over Cessnas and Cirruses there...

You're right, HPN does suck...

But what makes you think you should depart before everyone else in your mighty CRJ? Just because you're the first to call for taxi doesn't mean crap. There are other variables at play which determine who gets to go first.

 

[Lear70]

You're right, HPN does suck...

But what makes you think you should depart before everyone else in your mighty CRJ? Just because you're the first to call for taxi doesn't mean crap. There are other variables at play which determine who gets to go first.

It took you 2 months to come up with that?

What makes you think you should depart before everyone else in your mighty Citation?

might King Air?

mighty Cirrus?

The point he was making was that if two comparable aircraft in terms of speed and destination are leaving at the same time, they show preference to the corporate aircraft, regardless of who called first.

It SHOULD be first called, first served, if speed, climb capability, and destination region (departure vector) are the same.

 

[Hovernut]

I see Citrus is going Orlando-San Diego non-stop, too. When in STL, try to get some Ted Drewes frozen custard in the city. Best you'll ever have!

Having grown up in STL, it sure is eerie to go into Lambert and see all those empty gates on C and D concourses. What a wast it was to build the new runway!

 

[BoilerUP]

There are other variables at play which determine who gets to go first.

Yes, like favoritism for the locals over the airlines that operate in there.

In the situation I described (that happened to me), airplanes were departing over the same departure fix on a clear day with no flow at ZNY or into CLT. We got to sit in the block of 34 and watch a bunch of airplanes that called for taxi after us depart before us from the Netjets hangar, Avitat, and Landmark.

Given that situation, and comparable aircraft performance, why shouldn't the aircraft that calls ready first depart first?

 

[Phaedrus]

Because everyone is equal....but some are more equal than others

 

[F9 Driver]

THE most dangerous city in the country.

Is Camden,NJ.

 

[ERJpusher]

The biggest problem STL has attracting a new carrier is that there is very little originating traffic in STL. A very high percentage of the passengers are only connecting. If AA was not mini-hubbing STL, there wouldn't be enough to support their operation. I'm assuming this is why JB didn't jump on it, and Southwest rejected a proposal for expansion.

 

[Allen1]

Yes, like favoritism for the locals over the airlines that operate in there.

In the situation I described (that happened to me), airplanes were departing over the same departure fix on a clear day with no flow at ZNY or into CLT. We got to sit in the block of 34 and watch a bunch of airplanes that called for taxi after us depart before us from the Netjets hangar, Avitat, and Landmark.

Given that situation, and comparable aircraft performance, why shouldn't the aircraft that calls ready first depart first?

Godforbid that us Netjets guys takeoff before the airlines in our little cessnas. We should all just bow down to you big airline guys and move out of the way so the real pilots can takeoff.

 

[BoilerUP]

That's not what I said at all, Allen1.

I said when airplanes are departing over the same fix, to destinations without any delay programs, what good reason is there that I call ready first, get to the runway first, and then have to wait for multiple (local) aircraft that call ready after me to depart? There is no good reason for that, other than simple favoritism.

You folks should really be smart enough to realize I'm not some airline RJ pilot claiming superiority over corp/135/GA...I'm simply saying that all things being equal, departures should be first come, first serve and that is not the case at HPN.

 

[Allen1]

That's not what I said at all, Allen1.

I said when airplanes are departing over the same fix, to destinations without any delay programs, what good reason is there that I call ready first, get to the runway first, and then have to wait for multiple (local) aircraft that call ready after me to depart? There is no good reason for that, other than simple favoritism.

You folks should really be smart enough to realize I'm not some airline RJ pilot claiming superiority over corp/135/GA...I'm simply saying that all things being equal, departures should be first come, first serve and that is not the case at HPN.

Same crap happens to us at other airports so just deal with it.

 

[BoilerUP]

Same crap happens to us at other airports so just deal with it.

Really? Like where?

 

[Allen1]

Really? Like where?

Do you want me to name almost every major airport in the country?

 

[Lear70]

Godforbid that us Netjets guys takeoff before the airlines in our little cessnas. We should all just bow down to you big airline guys and move out of the way so the real pilots can takeoff.

Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.

What happen? That Do-jet time not get you that major airline interview you were counting on?

I've flown King Air and Lear charter, corporate, AND FRACTIONAL, as well as CRJ and Boeing Part 121, both freight and passenger, and I can tell you that MOST airports around the country, even the big hubs, space evenly out the departure gate REGARDLESS OF AIRCRAFT TYPE.

If you're the same speed and climb capability, you'll get stuck in between two airline guys without a thought in the world from ATC to preference - happened last week in ATL, one of your Excels came from the north side down Dixie onto Mike and jumped right in front of us even though we had been sitting in line for 15 minutes.

That's just the way it works... or at least it's SUPPOSED to work.

Duluth has the same problem - Cirrus aircraft, because they are built there and pay a LOT of the airport's fees, get preferential treatment over airliners. Had to circle twice last year because of a couple Cirrus planes out doing touch and goes. Not cool for a 121 airliner trying to keep a schedule.

So go whine somewhere else about airline favoritism at the hubs... like the Fractionals board.

 

[Allen1]

Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.

What happen? That Do-jet time not get you that major airline interview you were counting on?

I've flown King Air and Lear charter, corporate, AND FRACTIONAL, as well as CRJ and Boeing Part 121, both freight and passenger, and I can tell you that MOST airports around the country, even the big hubs, space evenly out the departure gate REGARDLESS OF AIRCRAFT TYPE.

If you're the same speed and climb capability, you'll get stuck in between two airline guys without a thought in the world from ATC to preference - happened last week in ATL, one of your Excels came from the north side down Dixie onto Mike and jumped right in front of us even though we had been sitting in line for 15 minutes.

That's just the way it works... or at least it's SUPPOSED to work.

Duluth has the same problem - Cirrus aircraft, because they are built there and pay a LOT of the airport's fees, get preferential treatment over airliners. Had to circle twice last year because of a couple Cirrus planes out doing touch and goes. Not cool for a 121 airliner trying to keep a schedule.

So go whine somewhere else about airline favoritism at the hubs... like the Fractionals board.

First of all I was just responding to his whining about HPN. I'm more than happy with my job, don't need to work for airline. We have have plenty of furloughed airline pilots here that aren't going back to the airlines. Why do you guys think everyone wants to work for an airline, get over yourself.

 

[AA717driver]

Not to mention the B717 flight director puts you over the runway threshold at about 150 feet instead of 50 if you're following G/S guidance on the FD.

Which means you're just about to touch down and the runway starts sloping up at the 2500' marker... BAM!

Of course, I've never done that. LOL

Took me a few months to figure out how to manage the energy on the 717, and getting it right means fighting half the automation on the airplane on every short runway, it's obnoxious.

Or you can slam down at the 3,000 foot marker and then bake the brakes.

On a coupled ILS, every FD will have you cross the threshold at 150' or so. You can set up the FMS to cross the threshold at 50', though. I used to land on RW31 @ CID w/ 6200' in both the 9 and 717 (the 717 has a lot better brakes than the 9). No G/S or anything. Great fun!

The 717 is a DC9--one of the best hand flying airplanes out there. If you leave the automation on 'till you HAVE to disconnect, you'll get to the runway safely but not serenly.

Even the 80 hand flys nice from 10,000' on down. The sim instructors will ALWAYS tell you to use the automation as much as you can. Just nod your head "yes" and then go hand fly below 10k out on the line. TC

 

[waveoff]

It took you 2 months to come up with that?

Actually, I was searching for posts about HPN and came across this thread, read some of the posts and got a good laugh out of BoilerUP's disillusioned view of how the ATC system works...so I just couldn't resist replying. If I was a forum geek like you with over 2,000 posts I would have responded sooner. You have my sincerest apologies.

It SHOULD be first called, first served, if speed, climb capability, and destination region (departure vector) are the same.

Who cares how it SHOULD be? It is what it is so deal with it. If it irks you so bad, make a safety issue out of it, go fill out a NASA form and complain about it... We don't care.

 

[Lear70]

Who cares how it SHOULD be? It is what it is so deal with it. If it irks you so bad, make a safety issue out of it, go fill out a NASA form and complain about it... We don't care.

I'm not the one who's P.O.'d about it.

YOU'RE the one who got your panties all in a wad when you THOUGHT someone was saying something they weren't.

Maybe you should invest some of your energy into some reading comprehension classes...

But I think I was right the first time... hit a little close to home, did I? SUuuurrrre you don't want a major airline job. Keep telling us that, we might believe you actually LIKE being on call all the time.

Don't worry... it's our little secret. We won't tell anyone... shhhhh.

 

[BoilerUP]

I have a "disillusioned view" of how the ATC system works simply because I think its BS we had to wait while locals who called after us got to go before us despite no ATC flow?

I got paid for the time the parking brake was set, and thankfully I didn't miss a commute because of it...but God forbid somebody call a spade a spade.

As far as I'm concerned, you bizjet folks can have HPN and Teterhole...

 

[waveoff]

I'm not the one who's P.O.'d about it.

YOU'RE the one who got your panties all in a wad when you THOUGHT someone was saying something they weren't.

Maybe you should invest some of your energy into some reading comprehension classes...

But I think I was right the first time... hit a little close to home, did I? SUuuurrrre you don't want a major airline job. Keep telling us that, we might believe you actually LIKE being on call all the time.

Don't worry... it's our little secret. We won't tell anyone... shhhhh.

I love getting a rise out of people like you. :laugh: