CVR for busting pilots?

[BentOver]

Even the most minor of incidents..Say, ingesting FOD on taxi in, bird strike...Or maybe nudging another a/c on the ramp, there is a good likelyhood a company "may" pull the tapes.... When they hear anything other than professional conversation expect to be called on it.. Remember the whole FBO camera debacle last year....

Especially when you've got "current management teams" in place that have little regard for employee relations..Or they hire an "employee relations consultant"!!

 

[rajflyboy]

You are making the illogical leap here that the company cannot use the CVR to punish. The FARs do not say that. They say the FAA cannot use it for enforcement action. It would not even end up in court. It is within a companies right to use the info on there as they see fit. It HAS happened and will continue to happen. Case closed.

Yes it would in some instances. Wrongful termination lawsuit comes to mind.

Show some facts of previous use of cvr and employee's being fired?

 

[BentOver]

I doubt there is any precedence....but the fact that it can happen and is perfectly legal. Unfortunatley when CVR usage comes into play it is too late for the crew and passengers........ Comair in LEX comes to mind...The pilots got plastered in the papers because of their non-aviation discussions.....

It's the companies plane. They can monitor any portion they want...Over stress an engine or operate it outside of it's limitations. Something happens, busted. I've seen that play out with other 121 companies. Maintenance can look up prior a/c data and know when and how a plane was being operated.....Those MFD/PFD's can show alot of maintenance info and trends.....(of course not every type of a/c)

If the company can watch you on a FBO ramp they can certainly pull CVR's.....I guess it would be in the CBA how or in which way a CVR can be used?? But that's only at various companies.

 

[CE750Driver]

Yes it would in some instances. Wrongful termination lawsuit comes to mind.

Show some facts of previous use of cvr and employee's being fired?

I know of a couple instances, that ended up in suspensions and retraining.
If it is on the CVR, with the pilot doing something stupid, wrongful termination would be hard to prove.

That's not the point of this thread anyhow. The Godfather says it is illegal for the company to use that information for discipline. He is wrong, the FAA may not. It is not ILLEGAL for the company to use CVR info. Now, for the decisions they decide to take after hearing them, they are responsible.

If your only defense on a wrongful termination suit is that it is illegal for the company to use that CVR info. You are done.

 

[rajflyboy]

I doubt there is any precedence....but the fact that it can happen and is perfectly legal. Unfortunatley when CVR usage comes into play it is too late for the crew and passengers........ Comair in LEX comes to mind...The pilots got plastered in the papers because of their non-aviation discussions.....

It's the companies plane. They can monitor any portion they want...Over stress an engine or operate it outside of it's limitations. Something happens, busted. I've seen that play out with other 121 companies. Maintenance can look up prior a/c data and know when and how a plane was being operated.....Those MFD/PFD's can show alot of maintenance info and trends.....(of course not every type of a/c)

If the company can watch you on a FBO ramp they can certainly pull CVR's.....I guess it would be in the CBA how or in which way a CVR can be used?? But that's only at various companies.

????????

not if you work for a fractional

 

[rettofly]

If your only defense on a wrongful termination suit is that it is illegal for the company to use that CVR info. You are done.

Ding Ding.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

I hate it when my foot slips from the panel and hits the CVR ERASE pb....oh, darn!

 

[glasspilot]

Honestly, I don't think that CVR ERASE button does anything. Sorta like the elevator "Door Close" button. It's just there to make the operator feel better.

I could be wrong...dunno. I'd love to hear a technical explanation from somebody with real first hand knowledge elaborate on what exactly happens when you push that button.

 

[Godfather]

Oops...

I stand corrected. Next time I'll read the questions...RTFQ or you guys might be pulling the tapes on me when I err again...

 

[Seahawker01]

Honestly, I don't think that CVR ERASE button does anything. Sorta like the elevator "Door Close" button. It's just there to make the operator feel better.

I could be wrong...dunno. I'd love to hear a technical explanation from somebody with real first hand knowledge elaborate on what exactly happens when you push that button.

I don't have the books with me but I think it erases all but the last half hour on the models I have flown. Remember they record at least a half hour newer ones are over two.
And if you reread the reg there is nothing that prohibits your company from pulling it other then astronimical cost. But some have and some wil.l I would recommend referring to your cba or ensuring your safety dept understands it purpose. Otherwise the rubber end cap of a set of crutches fits nicely over most mics

 

[tomgoodman]

Honestly, I don't think that CVR ERASE button does anything. Sorta like the elevator "Door Close" button. It's just there to make the operator feel better.

I could be wrong...dunno. I'd love to hear a technical explanation from somebody with real first hand knowledge elaborate on what exactly happens when you push that button.

Don't push the button! It "flags" the preceding segment of the tape as being particularly juicy, probably revealing an infraction, and worthy of a close review by the CVR Inspection Bureau.

 

[chainring]

The erase button by itself probably does nothing. Most aircraft require a couple of items to be done at the same time to erase. Like weight on wheels and a taxi light switch on was required on one aircraft I flew for the erase to do anything.

If you dont have any protections from a CBA I wouldnt trust any management.

 

[ultrarunner]

'did I just hear a CB pop'?

Yeah, it says CVR.

'oh, ok, our FOM says never reset a CB unless called for in the FOM' Is that one noted?

"no"

'before starting engines checklist please'