Current contract proposal SWA

[jetspeed]

Soupbone,

I am with an airline right now and it is SWA. You said money hungry unions, you seem to forget if it wasn't for unions you would have none of the benefits that you have today, go to your history books. Have you been watching the news? If you ask me the CEO's are the money hungry one's. What makes you think the CEO of SWA wouldn't be capable of that? A first year FO at SWA TAKES HOME $1295.00 on the 5th and roughly 1600.00 on the 20th of the month, try living on that in Baltimore Maryland or Oakland California. The money hungry union was not asking to break the company they were asking for industry AVERAGE pay. Pay was not the only issue in this interim contract. Benefits are weak, scheduling issues and reserve issues etc. If you are on the outside looking in educate yourself on the issues before sounding off. Southwest airlines did not become profitable just because of the people at the top, they seem to forget that, and they used the vulnerabilities of the other airlines to get what they wanted this time. There is no guarantee that pilots at SWA will be secure in their jobs. Noone can guarantee anyone that. Remember SWA does not sign one day over 1 year on a lease at a new city until they know they can make a profit, pretty smart move, but a 10 year contract by the pilots was just extended to 12 years. The only thing you should sign for that long is a mortgage, but I'm sure in 2006 Jim Parker will be there to show his appreciation, but then again in late 2004 don't be suprised if he is trying to negotiate yet another extension to an already weak and long 10 year "living contract", extending it until 2008. This is just business, if you have no experience here it is not all fun and games at SWA, it's just like any other business-ITS A JOB!

 

[dgs]

As somebody who interviewed at both SWA and jetBlue, I can tell you that all this negative energy from pilots within SWA just reaffirms my decision to go with JB. Those of you within the company, and particulary those of you who accept money from people to prep them for interviews, should realize the effect you are having on your potential new hires. Do you want people next to you in the cockpit who are eager to have fun flying an airplane, or who just want "industry leading 737 wages" and their share of the profits? It seems like you are getting away from some of the values that made you so successful in the past--and which could ensure your success in the future.

I thank God every day for the opportunity to work for a company with inspired leadership who truly appreciates their employees and our contributions to the bottom line. While we would all appreciate a little more change in our pocket, I don't think you'll find anybody at JB whining about our wages for a couple of reasons. 1) The compensation package goes beyond the hourly pay scales and could make us all wealthy beyond our wildest dream if WE continue to make this airline a success. If we're happy and make the customers happy, they'll make us happy again by returning for more business. 2) Management has continued so show LEADERSHIP in providing fair pay raises and other compensation. How many other companies have received unsolicited pay raises since 9/11? I suspect we'll see another one before the year is over. Why do they do that? See reason #1... If we're happy and make the customers happy...

I'm often asked how JB can be successful when all the other airlines are struggling. There are lots of reasons, but the one theme that is central to our company is providing the customer with the jetBlue experience. Make them happy. Build their loyalty. Make them want to come back again and again...and tell their friends to come back again and again. The planes fill up with paying passengers and we all make money. And we are all HAPPY along the way. It seems simple, but it works. (Don't you frequent stores where you get outstanding customer service?) Put yourself in your passenger's shoes. Which airline would you prefer to fly--one that makes you happy to be there, or one that makes you happy to be outta there?

In these times of massive furloughs, many of my friends who once flew the skies in the job of their dreams are now flying desks and wondering how many years it will be before they can return to the air. I, for one, count my blessings daily. After logging more hours than I cared to at a desk, I'm thrilled to be flying for a living. Next time you wish for more than you have, think about those who wish for the opportunity to have what you have. Many of them visit this forum and dream about the day they can have the job you may now take for granted.

When I was offered an interview with SWA I was pretty enthusiastic about the opportunity to work for a "fun" company. I posted something to that effect on the previous version of this forum and was flamed by SWA employees for my enthusiasm. I suspect I'll get some flames from this post, as well. Fortunately, in the final analysis, a smile comes to my face every day I put on the blue shirt--looking forward to living the dream of flying for a living and having fun!!! That's what I wanted to do for the rest of my working career and jetBlue is fulfilling that dream for me!! Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to gloat in my success. I know how fragile it is. I'm simply trying to encourage everybody to be thankful for what they have and look at the glass half full.

 

[rodeopilot]

Hey jetblue driver,
Glad youre having fun and feeling the love of management. I would love to hear your view when JB has 360 Airplanes and three to five solid unions to negotiate with. Also lump that in with payments on all of your airplanes and go figure, youll be just like Southwest(only with tv's, and a less tacky paint job). I wouldnt say that our raise was unsolicited, but management agreed to open a negotiation with the pilots prior to the ten year agreements end to boost our benefits and secure costs for future growth in a low margin environment. I dont see how thats a bad thing(and I voted no). Southwest has its eye on making the airport experience more convenient with new methods of check-in that reduce wait times at the terminal. Southwest has an eye on the competition(including you). I would say that the management here has a million copies of The Art of War and reads it every night before bed. They are ready to compete anywhere. They were born in a fight for the survival of this company. Southwest is still an awesome place to work(even though I voted no), I still have an excellent time on my trips. I have great overnights, and fly with excellent flight attendants. Our Mechanics are second to none. Every employee group gets along very well, so do the Unions. I would not say that things here are so bad, or bad at all, we just wanted better. Thats the American way. What you are hearing from here is a vocal group that is obviously in the minority considering the vote that passed yesterday. Even in the minority no vote there are people that still love to work at Southwest. I voted no(I think I mentioned that a few times) because the real issues that have affected me the most in the past couple of years were not addressed in the extension. We didnt raise the bar, or help our brothers that are looking at concessions any either. I dont think you can say it is greed to expect to be paid an industry average salary when you are an industry leader. You may have made a good choice going to jetblue(if it works for you thats all that matters), but you cant say that what you hear on this board, and from a few vocal pilots(which we know are all vested in the pure facts of every issue) that SWA is not a great place to work. Good luck at JB, you are working alongside good people.

 

[SWA/FO]

You can't compare a company with 15-20 airplanes + 300 pilots ?(JBLU) with a company of 370 airplanes + 4200 pilots.. everybody has different views. You got the old guys, with nothing to lose and you have the young guys that are always comparing themselves with their buddies at DAL, UAL and AA. (Well maybe there is not so much of that going on right now?)

Big three = Cutbacks, Furloughs.. Captain upgrade 10-15 years
SWA = Growth, Stability...Captain upgrade 4-6 years

I'm glad voter turn out was good with our vote.

I still remember where I use to work before SWA and SWA is 1000% better. *Of course, no employer is as good as JBLU and I hope that SWA can borrow (back) some of their ideas to help us build more revenue....

 

[jball2]

I would just like to reiterate what rodeopilot said about our whiners.

The ugly noise you hear is from a very vocal, very small, minority. I too believe there are many unresolved issues in the interim agreement but I could not vote (probation) and it doesn't matter anymore.

I do know that every friend of mine at USAir is furloughed, and most of the ones who went to United and Delta and American are as well. Certainly not gloating as they are my dear friends. I am just happy, like 99% of my coworkers at SWA, to be at SWA where I feel my career is secure.

As for Jet Blue, I have several friends over there and they love it. Thanks for the jumpseat rides from OAK to IAD!

 

[dgs]

I'm glad to hear a few more voices of reason chime in about some of the good things at SWA. The whiners were starting to overwhelm this thread and giving SWA a black eye. My post was aimed at them--and keeping things in perspective. I'm glad there are some of you who are still having fun who were just lurking this thread instead of speaking up.

I'll be the first to admit that JB has the benefit of looking at 31 years of SWA experience as we plot our future. I also applaud your efforts to improve customer service and the airport experience. I read Colleen's article on doing away with lines--especially the secondary screening--and I couldn't agree more. That's all part of my point. Let's make this industry better--to benefit us all--with increased passenger traffic. I believe there are plenty of customers for all of us if we do a good job of attracting and keeping them. Tearing your company (SWA or AA--on another thread) apart is counterproductive.

You are right that JB is relatively small and it is easier to have that family feeling and trusting relationships at this stage of our development. I'm sure SWA was a very different place to work when it was only 2.5 yrs old than it is now. It's also my guess that you all would have enjoyed working for the company in those days--particularly knowing now how much your stock options would be worth today. We may have to deal with unions one day. If we do, I suspect it will be an in-house union like you have at SWA. I can't see ALPA ever caring about our needs.

I need to set the record straight on a couple of issues. First, we have 28 airplanes as of today and another 7 on the way before year's end. We are pushing 400 pilots today and will have almost 500 by the end of the year. We are still hiring 24 a month. Second, we are paying for our airplanes. There is no magic financing. This seems to be a very popular lie that gets repeated often by those who can't figure out how we are making money. Check our prospectus. Our airplane payments are all a matter of public record.

You are all welcome to our jumpseats. As you probably know, we will fill any empty seat (pax or FA jump) with any qualified jumpseater (pilot or FA). With loads exceeding 85%, we may not always have a pax seat for you, but we do everything we can to take as many people as we can (including putting JB people in the cockpit so you can have a comfy leather seat with live TV). I'm a commuter myself, and I enjoy hauling my brothers and sisters around as a way of saying thanks for the seats I get from you.

I realize that contract negotiations create tension and strong emotions. Again, my point is simply to keep it all in perspective and to be thankful for those things we do have as we discuss those things we would like to have.

 

[XNav]

Let's see....poolies, probies, wannabe's and koolies from other airlines. Since y'all have the big picture sharply in focus, perhaps you can shed some light on these issues.

I wasn't aware we had a new contract. I thought RLA section 6 negotiations were required for a new contract. I was under the impression we were extending an existing concessionary contract following interest based negotiations. I wasn't aware that IAP would harm our business model. In fact, I recall a study funded by SWAPA which concluded even ILP would do us no harm. (Do you even know what I just said?) Renegotiate in two years you say? How many years is it between now and 2006 (our new amenable date)? Do you know what raise percentages in the ICA are over and above what was already in our current contract? Do you know what percentages are guaranteed? What do you feel the odds are that we will receive all the profitability bonuses based on the current state of the industry? Do you understand the FOP and ORG and the values associated with each grant? Do you feel the ORG distribution is fair? How about the vesting schedule? Does that sit well with all you guys? How about the -200 override issue? Should we have offered that up so quickly? Do you feel the Black-Scholes method of option valuation is valid for monthly-vested incentive options with 8 and 12 year lifespans? Is it ok that my current 3000-odd options are presently worth minus $20K? Should I be concerned that my year group gave up $57K more in pay value in the '94 agreement than what the options awarded in lieu of that pay are now worth? But we have PS, right? How much will that total this year? Is that a guaranteed source of retirement income? How do our available 401K investment options look to you guys? Is it okay to simply say yes to the first offer and consider ourselves lucky without attempting to negotiate for the best deal we can get? C'mon, help me out here. I'm just a simple-minded fighter jock trying to get the big flick. Maybe one of you broadly-focused, intellectual-type gas passers can square me away.

You guys really ought to stick to the tail wagging just-happy-to-be-here stuff. I have no problem with an informed individual who espouses a different point of view. Vocal ignorants, however, I find intolerable.

 

[rodeopilot]

Sour grapes will do nothing for us as NO voters. Im no Kool aid drinker, and yes I do think SWA could cough up the cash. How many times have you(or any of us) paid the sticker price on a car in the lot? Im really dissapointed that the majority chose that path, but pointing fingers and calling names doesnt do a thing for our position. I hope Weaks has a plan to get this group unified, because I just see another tube of K-Y coming in '06.

 

[nimtz]

I wish you guys all the luck in 2006. You deserve to be the highest payed 737 pilots. Hope you guys can raise the bar next time

No you only deserve highest payed 737 rate if your pilot group has the b*lls to go get it. Sadly the SWA guys lack that!

 

[falcon20]

XNAV,
Im glad that you are the very limited in number of the vocal minority with the pilots of SWA. Im here to assure you that the great majority of the pilots at SWA have an attitude that is ten times better than his. Sometimes people who were given everything and their career came easy they often dont know what it is like to be in the real world. For all of you waiting for the class date at SWA, I assure you it is not like every other airline that 95% of the pilots have this very immature and self-preserving attitude that xnav has. You will have an great time and keep a good attitude, for that was the reason you were hired.

 

[XNav]

And what are your thoughts regarding the questions posed above? There were a couple more I thought you may be able to help me with. Do you feel the new duty rigs will positively effect our schedule quality? The SWAPA Scheduling Committee said no, but you must have some deeper insight, what with your having worked so hard to get where you are, (hey, I just showed up, told them who daddy was and they put me in a class) and with your positive attitude and all. How do you feel about the super mediation language? The attorneys say it's untested and therefore they have serious doubts about our ability to make it binding, but you obviously are a very mature, team-oriented kind of guy so you must be able to explain where they went astray in their analysis. Any knowledge of any of those issues? C'mon, you've got a unique grasp on the real world; a grasp I must lack (you said so yourself)....tell me what you think is the best way to address these issues that will directly effect our livelihoods for the next x years.

You won't because you can't. That's because there's more to it than little slogans like "good attitude" and the "big picture". It's business. Not love, respect, family or any of that. Taking interest in the process, understanding the issues and negotiating for the best compensation has nothing to do with whining or the golden goose. SWA wants the best deal for the company and will get us to do our thing as cheaply as they can. We need to understand that and approach the process in an equally professional way.

If your just happy to be here, fine. That's understandable. But to indignantly imply that we who support the union in its stance against the ICA are somehow stupid, ignorant or self-serving while you apparently have little or no knowledge of the offer presented or its future implications is simply ludicrous. Gather information. Formulate an opinion. Support your argument. Such is the road to credibility.

And quit calling me names. You're hurting my feelings.