CRJ Fuel....

[JetPilot_Mike]

On the other hand, preflighted a CRJ recently that had about 1100lbs onboard. Previous crew came in from Canada on a 3+hr flight and landed with things pretty close to Cat I mins and getting scuzzier. Yeah, they had Cat II capability, but it wouldnt have taken a whole lot to leave them with NO options. Talked to a guy the next day who saw a similar load, but it was VFR at the time.

Wow..that is almost reckless. What about alt fuel? What about reserve? The least I have ever landed with was 1900lbs, and that was back when Comair was using low reserve numbers in the 1500's. I was very uncomfortable at 1900lbs.

1100lbs would be a declared emergency, I think, at Comair.

 

[JECKEL]

Comair has a minimum fuel table in it's operation manual.

Emergency Fuel under that table is 1500 lbs. That allows you a missed approach, followed by 25 minutes at 1500' (at MLW, ISA +10, W/C A/I), and fuel to fly a second approach.

"The captain shall declare an emergency when the estimated fuel remaining upon landing will be less than the emergency fuel listed in the table or remaining usuable fuel will allow 30 minutes or less of continued flight time."

 

[Lear70]

That's almost verbatim from what our FOM says here at PCL.

Using reserve fuel when you're holding at an arrival fix at your destination is fine, that's what reserve fuel exists for.

Holding on the ground before you takeoff, getting leveled at 17,000 for 30 minutes exiting the Northeast Corridor, or unplanned flight plan deviations for hundreds of miles in the wrong direction against a headwind are all PERFECT examples of what reserve fuel was NOT intended to cover, that's what CONTINGENCY fuel is for.

If I'm not on the arrival for whatever city I'm landing in and our EFOA shows us eating into our reserve, I'm diverting. Done that once or twice a year the last 5 at this company and have NEVER, EVER done a carpet crawl for it.

My personal "happy place" on C fuel is 500 lbs CAVU into a small airport, 700 lbs CAVU into a hub or large airport (DFW, BOS, etc), 700 lbs IMC conditions into a small airport, 900 lbs IMC conditions into a large airport, unless you're departing with a ceiling less than 500' at your destination (now or forecase) or convective weather at your destination (now or forecast), in which case I ask for more like 1,100 to 1,200 lbs.

Fuel in the gas truck doesn't help you and I hate when my sleep is reduced after we divert because some pencil pusher in an ivory tower somewhere decided we could save 10 lbs of fuel per flight for carrying 8 minutes of C fuel instead of 20.

 

[ReportCanoa]

That's what happens when you have 100kt headwind and want to get home quickly, so you're crusiing along at .78+ when you're planned for .74, then all of a sudden you get to ATL and hold for a bit... I love hearing them whining to dispatch that they had a headwind or had to change altitudes when it's their own darn fault for going as fast as they can go and wasting the fuel away during the 3 hr flight! Holding .74 vs max cruise thrust is 100-200lbs/hr per engine so over 3 hours that adds up to 800-1200lbs of fuel you just pissed away to get there 5 min faster. There's no learnin' some people though.

You've got that right.

 

[Russ]

Like to see 2700 min on the 200 and 3500 min on the 700 on landing.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

What is a "normal" cruise flow for the CRJ? From reading the above posts, it sounds like 1100 lbs is less than 30 minutes?

 

[=w=]

What is a "normal" cruise flow for the CRJ? From reading the above posts, it sounds like 1100 lbs is less than 30 minutes?

Way less. Normal cruise is 1300-1600pph per side at altitude.

 

[wmuflyguy]

That should be landing someone with about a week of unpaid leave to think about it.

550 pounds A SIDE at landing? YGBSM... They HAD to know at some point during the flight they were going to land with less than their 45 minute reserve??!!

I don't believe there is a FAR that says I have to land with certain amount of fuel on-board. The only requirement I know is to carry 45mins reserve on a flight. Where we use that fuel is up to us.

According to the Feds, If I land and taxi clear of the runway and the engines flame out, the flight was a success.

I agree 1100 pounds is really low, but you aren't sure what circumstances led up to it. I am pretty sure no-one would get time off for it.

 

[Lear70]

I don't believe there is a FAR that says I have to land with certain amount of fuel on-board. The only requirement I know is to carry 45mins reserve on a flight. Where we use that fuel is up to us.

According to the Feds, If I land and taxi clear of the runway and the engines flame out, the flight was a success.

I agree 1100 pounds is really low, but you aren't sure what circumstances led up to it. I am pretty sure no-one would get time off for it.

Well, I'll put it more bluntly then.

If I were a Check Airman and you made a decision EARLY in flight to continue to your destination KNOWING you would land with less than your reserve, I'd bust you for poor decision making skills. I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for people pushing a bad situation in regards to safety.

Your attitude of "If I land and taxi clear of the runway and the engines flame out, the flight was a success" is complete and total bullsh*t. That's careless and reckless, no matter HOW you look at it, unless you were backed into a corner at your arrival station and didn't have the fuel to go anywhere else.

Lastly, I will NEVER, EVER allow the aircraft I command to be operated with an EFOA of LESS than reserve fuel if there is an enroute station to divert to and pick up additional fuel.

We WILL return to gate, OR divert.

That position, incidentally, has been upheld repeatedly by our MEC reps and our Chief Pilot and guys HAVE gotten suspended for bad judgment calls related to fuel, and THAT'S A FACT!

 

[wmuflyguy]

Well, I'll put it more bluntly then.

If I were a Check Airman and you made a decision EARLY in flight to continue to your destination KNOWING you would land with less than your reserve, I'd bust you for poor decision making skills. I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for people pushing a bad situation in regards to safety.

Your attitude of "If I land and taxi clear of the runway and the engines flame out, the flight was a success" is complete and total bullsh*t. That's careless and reckless, no matter HOW you look at it, unless you were backed into a corner at your arrival station and didn't have the fuel to go anywhere else.

Lastly, I will NEVER, EVER allow the aircraft I command to be operated with an EFOA of LESS than reserve fuel if there is an enroute station to divert to and pick up additional fuel.

We WILL return to gate, OR divert.

That position, incidentally, has been upheld repeatedly by our MEC reps and our Chief Pilot and guys HAVE gotten suspended for bad judgment calls related to fuel, and THAT'S A FACT!

Listen here, i wasn't conveying my attitude, I was stating the rules as they are written by the FEDS. I said I agree with you that 1100#'s is way too low. You didn't know the circumstances that the crew landed with 1100# with, so you saying they should get time-off is BS.

Why don't you go have a beer and chill out.