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Crew Scheduling

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If it a chief pilot wants something he/she is talking to sups. I have given several personal drps...I have also have several questionable sick calls for 4day trips that run into 3 days off...thats why the res. get called...Line pilots need to be more responsible and think of their fellow pilot employees...
 
Rumorhasit:

I like the clown face, it fits you and scheduling PERFECTLY.

I don't normally tout my past to make a point, I just didn't want to hear your cry baby shi.t about hauling bags. My service was MY choice, correct. My point being that I've had tough jobs before and had to handle difficult situations--to tell the truth, schedulers stress me much more than armed combat, how fu***ed up is that?

Once again you have the PERFECT attitude--"...should have known your contract." SHOULDN'T YOU KNOW THE CONTRACT AS WELL???? Isnt' that a part of YOUR JOB?? I have my own job to do, I shouldn't have to do YOUR job as well--no pilot should. A scheduler should NEVER deliberately assign an illegal, or contractually forbidden trip.......WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND.....WHY DO YOU RESIST THIS SO MUCH.

As far as legit sick time, or dropping trips....I have NEVER called off sick, never no-showed, never been late. As for the operation, I'm not a part of the PROBLEM. I come to work to WORK.

Guys call off sick because they know they cannot get the day off they need, or they are just tired of the crap. It's easier to call off then to battle the scheduling machine...another simple point.

Maybe I am part of the 10%....I'll tell you this, I'm not going anywhere, and I'll make sure our new TA is aimed directly between crew schedulings eyes. MANY pilots feel this way, they are just afraid of pis.sing you off for fear of being on your shi.t list. Don't kid yourself--no one at this company loves you and your guardian angel just got himself fired!
 
Outermarket:

I was aware of the duty pilot, and I have called them for technical probs. I wasn't aware they involved themseles in Sched. issues.

I do try to make use of what resources we have, sometimes more sucessfully than others.

Jesus, I'm getting myself all pis.sed off in this thread. Time to call it quits, going home tomorrow for a few days break.:eek:
 
what the h3ll do you mean "guardian Angel"

and the clown...was pretty cool
 
rumorhasit said:
If it a chief pilot wants something he/she is talking to sups. I have given several personal drps...I have also have several questionable sick calls for 4day trips that run into 3 days off...thats why the res. get called...Line pilots need to be more responsible and think of their fellow pilot employees...


And what exactly, in your vast experience, makes for a questionable sick call? Just because I call in sick for a 4 day trip that has 3 days off after it it becomes a "questionable" sick call. Your job is to cover trips not to pass judgement on whether or not I'm really sick when I use my CONTRACTUALLY GUARANTEED sick time.

I agree, we should call in sick responsibly. However, I don't think it's your place to try and decide who is sick and who isn't.
 
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divide and conquer

Pilots, dispatchers, schedulers.

I've seen the best, the worst and everything in between of all three groups.

Bicker between the groups and management gets the last laugh, because it takes some of the heat off themselves.
 
fmrfreightdog...

The idea was to show what can be construed as a missuse of the system. It's not my job to judge sickcalls and I don't but I can question in my own mind. I am sure you or someone you know has called in sick when you just don't feel like working? I have...
 
>>The idea was to show what can be construed as a missuse of the system. It's not my job to judge sickcalls and I don't but I can question in my own mind. I am sure you or someone you know has called in sick when you just don't feel like working? <<

I personally know a couple of pilots who have called in sick when they cant get on their commuting flight into ATL. Yes it ticks me off.
Palerider, I agree with just about everything you are saying, but I handle it a little differently. Its human nature, you will get much more out of someone that you are nice too. If its not legal, I talk to them in a calm manner and usually end up working it out with everyone happy. If not I say thank you, hang up and call the hotline or C/P. They are standoffish at times, but I think that is because people yell at them all the time. I have overheard pilots going off on schedulers on the phone in ops, in a big way using every word in the book, simply because they are pissed that they were extended for one round trip. Do you go off when the putz at Burger King gives you Sprite instead of a Coke? Its just not worth it. As the saying goes,. "Know your audience" It will get better. I am with you on the T/A !
Rumor, kudos to you for posting on here.
 
Is it just me, or are all Crew Schedulers born with an extra sphincter between their eyes???
QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but are all pilots born with a di.ck on their forehead?

I am also a crew scheduler. I have worked in this department for over a year, after having been a ticketing/gate agent. I hear your pain, but the truth is, all our jobs suck. Yes, I get to go home to my boyfriend and dog everynight, but that is because I choose to. No one forced you to become a pilot, as no one forced me to become a scheduler. From the sound of it, you have been a regional pilot for years. Why are you still doing it? Is it worth it? It must be.

I am not defending all schedulers here. There are those who "hate" certain crew members and do all they can to screw with them. But there are those of us who do everything in our power to help out. I have helped out numerous people. I have found other people to cover last rt's, so that someone could catch an earlier commute and not sit around the airport for 5 hrs. I have given whole rsv days off so someone could go to the doctor or attend a community garage sale. I have told people to stay home b/c they sound like sh.it and had no business coming to work. I have spent hours figuring out a trip swap b/w 4 ca's, just so one could have a whole week off.

Numerous other things come to mind, but for the sake of covering my own a.ss from mng, I will not list them here. I am not the scheduling saint, by any means. I have done my share of extended and jr-manning, as well as building trips with dhd's to and from a base just to cover a rt. But do I enjoy it? No. I usually try to pass it off to one of the other scheduler's b/c I feel horrible about it. I also recall calling a couple different people over the past year to jr-mann them, and because of some sob story they tell me, I let them go and tell them to pretend I didn't call.

What makes me bitter is that fact that no one can say thank you. Boo-hoo you say, but it makes a difference. When I make my job harder just to accomadate someone else, I deserve some respect and some gratitude. I do not have to do these things. I can be the biggest bit/ch you've ever met. But I do feel sorry for you guys. I know you are dealing with tough situatuons and attitudes. And we appreciate it.

I know my company has been really fu(ked up lately. What with the number of resigantions we've had, it's a wonder we are still operating. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of people we jr-manned or extended for oct, or the number of people who flew over 95 hrs for the month. There is probably not a ca in the company who wasn't jr-manned in oct. (I don't think they want to hear you sob stories either) We even have one ca who is timing out for the YEAR in the middle of nov! Now that sucks! These people have flown 90 some hrs, with many as low as 6-7 days off for the month. These are great people!! I thank you and am in awe of you.

But that doesn't excuse the lack of bad attitudes and bad manners that are directed at schedulers. When I come to work in the wee hours of the morning, sit down at my desk, and look at open time and segs for the week, I want to pull my hair out. !0 open trips, 40 open segs,(for a week) mostly for pilots. Do you know when the last time we had even one ca or fo on rsv was? Probably back in aug or sep. But to complete ours jobs we have to cover this stuff. We have to find anyone who can cover these. Then throw the whole broken a/c thing into the pile and you have a huge mess. Do you understand how frustrating it is when you have three open rt's to cover for the day, with no rsv's and mx asks you for a crew to repo a plane out of mht. Then when you tell them no, they go to your boss and he comes to you to find someone.

And as for the remark about scheduling causing someone's divorce, give me a break. It sounds like they didn't need any help. I am so sick and tired of being the brunt of everyone's problems. If you don't like your job, find another. I know this may sound a little harsh, but I read the same whines and grumbles on here all the time. Obviously there is no one airline that is better than another.

One week management is the devil. I guess this week its scheduling. But don't clump everyone together. I know the regs, I have my own highlighted copy of the contract. (And I still have pilots calling me to ask me how much a canx seg is worth.) I can do my job better than anyone here. But don't talk sh.it about me, cause I don't deserve it. I ain't your boss, spouse, or child. I am your equal.

I may not have as much education as you, or as much experience in the airline industry. But I don't make as much money as you either. And b/f you gripe about per diem rates and 75 hr months, let me ask you a question. Have to ever lived on fourteen thousand dollars a year? That's $14,000.00. Not $20,000, not $25,000. $14,000!!!! Why don't I change careers, as my advice to you was? Probably for the same reasons as you. I can't afford to. I can't afford to go back to school without student loans. And I can't get them for only one or two classes. And I can't attend more than one or two classes at a time while working a forty hour plus week. So can we all agree that we are all under paid, overworked, and unappreciated?

I am only speaking here from my own personal experience. My comments may not reflect every airline and/or crew scheduler. You may very well have the grand dame of scheduling bit.ches at your company. I just wanted to speak my peace and let everyone know that not all of us are out to get you. It is not my purpose everyday to to come to work and see how many lives I can screw over.

P.S. Just a thank you again to my dedicated and hardworking crew members. You have been through a lot the past couple of months and our many thanks are with you.
 
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Crewguru:

Fair enough, I appreciate that not all Schedulers are out to get pilots and not all pilots are easy to work with (yours truly included:D )

I have been around the block a few times and, like I said above, I understand that planes break, people get sick, and all of a sudden you find yourself with no coverage.

My problem is this (as I said above) the outright lies and deliberate contractual violations in scheduling. The examples I gave above are only a couple of incidents. At my company scheduling tries to convince SENIOR pilots of the most rediculous things. A few days ago I spoke with a 19 year Captain who bid reserve last month, he was unlawfully extended from a nap for an additional overnight. The general consensus of schedulers on this board is "tough, he should have known the contract!" And, yes he should have, but that's no excuse for sched. assigning him an unlawful trip, knowing he hadn't been on reserve for over a decade. I sat him down and schooled him on reserve rules and some of the tricks played by CS. If the Feds ever review his duty time, HE will be the one to burn, not CS.

I know the company tells you to fill the trips anyway you can, some schedulers take that to mean pull out the bag of dirty tricks, on the least suspecting people. Others, like yourself it seems, try to work honorably--believe it or not, I do appreciate your efforts.

When you are in a jam, if you took the time to explain why your short calling, extending, JM'ing, Drafting, etc....you would get much more cooperation out of pilots. It sounds like you do this already....many schedulers don't, if you question them you get "are you refusing this trip!!!" (That's when I hang up on them and go right to the CPO and ALPA) Again, even if I wanted to fly, the attitude and disrespect makes my blood boil.

When people on this board say "you only work 75 hrs. a month"---than it's my turn to through out the bullsh.it card. I may FLY 75 hrs a month, but that does not include the HOURS spent on the ramp trying to make this airline work, or the calls to maint., time waitng for a release, etc.,etc,. etc., In the Brasilia days a 6 leg day blocked for 5 hrs could easily equate a 13 hour day.--but hey I only worked 5 hours??? The actual flying time is the EASIEST part of this job, it's the crap on the ground the really pi.sses pilots (and FA's) off. Believe it or not, I do love my job and almost all of the people I work with...the glitch is that I don't see the struggling with CS as a part of my job.

Crewguru, all I ask is that Scheduling follow the contract thats been in place for years. If in doing that trips cannot be covered, then we are understaffed and Management needs to know that.

A new TA will go a long way at this airline, when there is a seniority based reserve system, a fly-don't fly list, and other things respecting senioirty--a lot of this galatic struggle will fade away. It will take time to build trust between CS and Pilots, but eventually it will make ALL of our jobs easier. This way, if I bid reserve or relief, I'll know you followed a list in inverse seniority and ended up at me. Right now, there is NO rhyme or reason who is selected for any given trip, and there is no accountability--this is WAY too much administrative power for CS and it lends itself to serious abuses. Pilots have finally had it and it IS going to end.

Having said all of that, I don't know if we work for the same airline or not. If so and I have been shi.tty to you, I aplogize. You said you have been in CS for a year, many of us have had CS salt rubbed in our wounds for years--yes, pilots can be ass.holes, but your fellow schedulers have to take their fair share of responsibility for the bitteness.

Good luck to you.
 
I don't think we work for the same airline, but I understand your plights. I just wanted to stick up for those of us who are trying.
 
crewguru said:
We even have one ca who is timing out for the YEAR in the middle of nov! Now that sucks!

Ummm... hate to be the one to tell you, but I'm fairly certain this pilot did that ON PURPOSE! Maybe you knew that already, but this is a common tactic of a senior pilot, something you'd know if you had been a scheduler for more than a year as this happens every year. Now he (or she) gets an extra month and a half of paid vacation over the holidays. Our contract actually has a section that specifically addresses this and works to keep pilots from timing out in November (but if you work hard you can still time out in the middle of Dec which about 16-18 pilots between all 3 domiciles are going to do this year).

I ain't your boss, spouse, or child. I am your equal. I may not have as much education as you, or as much experience in the airline industry. But I don't make as much money as you either. And b/f you gripe about per diem rates and 75 hr months, let me ask you a question. Have to ever lived on fourteen thousand dollars a year? That's $14,000.00. Not $20,000, not $25,000. $14,000!!!!


As a human being, we are all equal. But as an aviation professional, the above statements are contradictory and you will have a hard time getting any pilot to agree that crew schedulers are our equals in the aviation world. When you have experience commensurate with ours as YOU described above maybe we'll reconsider that stance. And yes, most of us did make $14,000 at one point in our career, usually our first aviation job either flight instructing or towing banners, etc.

So can we all agree that we are all under paid, overworked, and unappreciated?


Agreed. Crewguru, I'm not trying to bash you here, I'm sure you do a great job at your company (which by your statements I'm sure isn't where I work). But the problem is that we often bend over backwards to help our CS out in a bind, like making it to the airport and block out inside of 40 minutes instead of the contractually required 90 minute REPORT time plus time to get to the a/c, but then two days later when they assign an out-and-back at 1800 on your last day and when you try to drop it they say "Denied due to staffing" and you show up and there are 4 CA's on home reserve and 6 CA's sitting at the airport on ready reserve with great weather, is it any wonder reserves get hostile?

The actual flying time is the EASIEST part of this job, it's the crap on the ground the really pi.sses pilots (and FA's) off.


Well said Palerider.

Crewguru, all I ask is that Scheduling follow the contract thats been in place for years. If in doing that trips cannot be covered, then we are understaffed and Management needs to know that.


AMEN! Can I get an AMEN from my brothers? :D At this company the Association has been preparing a small booklet for new-hires highlighting the reserve sections of the contract along with scheduling tactics so that the new guys and gals know their contractual rights without having to pull it out from 20 different parts of the contract. Hopefully this will stop some of these illegal assignments and force the issue with staffing.
 
dispatcher duty day limitations...

I've heard that dispatchers have a max duty day of 10 hours but I'm too lazy to look it up. Is that true?
 
Lear70 said:
Ummm... hate to be the one to tell you, but I'm fairly certain this pilot did that ON PURPOSE!
NO SHI.T!! And while he may have been planning this to a certain extint, the fact that we are so short staffed has nothing to do with it. Not at all. Right!

And as for the remark that we aren't equals... Let me just say that attitudes like yours are what brings this industry down. When people who have a "god" complex, treat people like **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** (i.e. scheduling, gate agents, ramp agents, dispatch, mechanics, etc.) everyone loses out. You are not better than anyone else. It takes all of us to run an airline, not just you, god. No one's job is more important than anothers. Get off your high horse and come back to reality.

As for my 14,000/ yr, did I forget to mention that this is currently the most I ever made? And by my comment of going back to school, this does not mean I'm ignorant. I do have a college education, just not in anything that is going to get me anywhere!!
But I make do, and obviously you all do too. We would all like to make more money. That's the American dream, right?

Maybe I'm just getting my panties in a wad, but these generalized statements just piss me off. :mad:

If you know your contract and the far's then what's the problem. No one can force a trip on you that is illegal. And if scheduling doesn't know the contract, then maybe you should talk to their manager or supervisor as well as the cpo, and try to figure out why not. Maybe it's as simple as it was never a part of their training program. If this doesn't work then greive.

Enough from me. What ever I say is just going to be used against me, anyway. Have a great day everyone!:D
 

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