Crew Scheduling

[Mungusaurus]

To OuterMarket

YOU TOOK THE ATP WRITTEN THAT WE DID, B F D. Most of us spent several years and many thousands of dollars getting our certificates and ratings and building time in the real world to get where we are. Then we get some person who decided it might be fun to get a dispatch license went and studied for a few days and took a test my granny could study for and pass and he/ she thinks we are now equal, holy $hit now I have heard everything.
You come fly a nine leg day in the northeast, yup nine legs all to 100 and 1/2 in blowing snow, 70 knot windshears at 2000 feet passengers puking, 16+ hour duty days, broke kit, and the pressures of DISPATCH and SYSTEM CONTROL and the VP of OPs and the CP etc breathing down your necks. Oh and then dont go home at night, wear the same clothes next day and do it all over again. Try the next time you are at your desk to not get up for five hours straight, no coffee or soda or even water, no bathroom break or food all because you are playing catch up and trying to get your airline back on time.
Dont even start to pretend we are on the same level, stay in your cosy little office try and get my release right the first time and dont complain you aren't worth any money, I fly with guys who make less than you and their job is real, not at a computer, two friends of mine are dead right now while their dispatcher is still sitting in his office with his cup of coffee. Thats as real as it gets. Your $13 an hour is for 40 hrs a week right, thats 160 hrs a month = $2080, an FO at $17 an hour for 75 hrs pay credit a month = $1275 is that right ? is it? Heck no! Get your facts straight first.
Hey I feel good now, THanx Mung.

 

[LuvMyJob]

How about this for junior manning. One of our guys is on his way home, non-rev on Chautauqua. Our crew sched. calls Arinc to relay message to Chq flt xxx to relay message to Capt. so & so to call scheduling on arrival. So now Chq pilot has to tell their flt. attend to go to seat 4a and tell Capt (from another company) that he has been junior manned. Then when the plane lands, the gate agent tells Capt so & so that they were instructed to detain his crew bag until the message was given to him. I think I'll start driving to work!

 

[shamrock]

I used to count back from the end of my reserve day to get my own "release" time.

Believe me, I do use this method every day I'm on reserve.

And just to clear things up, after I was told I couldn't be released I waited a few minutes, called back, was released by someone else, and got on the plane. I don't bother calling anymore. This actually happened during the the summer of '02, when I had been on line for less than 2 months and didn't have a very good idea about how to deal with our scheduling. I have learned A LOT since then!

Sorry I wasn't as clear as I should've been. It was late, and my post was long enough already.

 

[Sinca3]

Nice

How about this for junior manning. One of our guys is on his way home, non-rev on Chautauqua. Our crew sched. calls Arinc to relay message to Chq flt xxx to relay message to Capt. so & so to call scheduling on arrival. So now Chq pilot has to tell their flt. attend to go to seat 4a and tell Capt (from another company) that he has been junior manned. Then when the plane lands, the gate agent tells Capt so & so that they were instructed to detain his crew bag until the message was given to him. I think I'll start driving to work!

I think this sucks big time, but I have to give this scheduler some credit! I am astounded that they actually thought to do this. I mean we are talking about people that don't usually think more than 30-40 minutes in the future.

Disclaimer to those scedulers on this board:
If you are on these message boards you are most likely at the top of your game. You are intrested in your proffession and get involved with all aspects of it. Including being on message boards taking heat from disgruntled pilots. Stay and continue to hear from all sides. It makes you better at what you do because you are more familiar with all aspects and consequences of the job you perform.

Cheers

 

[Palerider957]

Re: Nice

Originally posted by Sinca3 Disclaimer to those scedulers on this board:
If you are on these message boards you are most likely at the top of your game. You are intrested in your proffession and get involved with all aspects of it. Including being on message boards taking heat from disgruntled pilots. Stay and continue to hear from all sides. It makes you better at what you do because you are more familiar with all aspects and consequences of the job you perform.

Cheers [/B]

Good point....

 

[rumorhasit]

Palerider:

Just to let you know I have been in the airline biz for over four years...although not a vet but not a wet behind ears teenage moron I Have loaded 75 bags in the 115 degree sun...have you.... I am much older than you think!!!

Have you ever filled a NASA report...Everyone makes mistakes and some learn from them. Schedulers don't have hundreds of hours with instructors in training environments like pilots. We have 3weeks then out on the phones with sups and management looking over our shoulder. Maybe your approach toward scheduling is a little hostile and people can pick up on that. I have bent over backwards for pilots who are cool and civil with me. Not all schedulers are trying to screw u....

As for the "lifes golden" Your life is not golden...yet. When You get a line (I am assuming you are a reserve) life gets better or no one would do this. I do have my ratings and a partner in a flight school ...I WILL get a regional job...and probably be gripping just like you...

 

[Palerider957]

Rumorhasit:

As for loading bags in the sun, no I haven't....I have FOUGHT FOR MY LIFE ON AN URBAN BATTLEFIELD..have you?? ...don't give me some sob story about having to break a sweat.

Maybe my tone with scheduling is hostile, granted. But, Sched fired the first shot. When I was new (years ago), my VERY FIRST DAY out of IOE, Scheduling assigned me a trip at 1800 hrs. but tried to get me to come in at 0800 to sit ready reserve--WE DON'T HAVE READY RESERVE AT MY AIRLINE. I almost did it until a Captain overheard me talking it over with another new guy, the Capt. hit the roof and told me to tell sched to F**K off!! I promptly did so. Even if I had been dumb enough to come in, this was not only a violation of the contract, but it would have been an FAR violation---who would have gotten in trouble if the FAA got wind of my duty time??? Scheduling or me??

A couple of months ago, Sched told another Captain (who held a regular nap/stand-up line) that Nap-line holders have to come in early for ready reserve!!! This Captain laughed in the schedulers face and hung up.

I was dumbfounded that the rest of the airline could be so good, but the schedulers were so quick to lie and cheat about the contract. You people (to this day they do this), know who the new people are and prey on them. I have schooled MANY new hires about Sched's bullshi.t tricks...they are as stunned as I was.

Since then I've held a regular, relief, and reserve line. And the best thing is not having to talk to sched. after flying a trip.

I know I sound like an ass.hole to you, but believe it or not I HAVE tried to make peace with some of the people in Sched. They simply won't have it....

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

How about this for junior manning. One of our guys is on his way home, non-rev on Chautauqua. Our crew sched. calls Arinc to relay message to Chq flt xxx to relay message to Capt. so & so to call scheduling on arrival. So now Chq pilot has to tell their flt. attend to go to seat 4a and tell Capt (from another company) that he has been junior manned. Then when the plane lands, the gate agent tells Capt so & so that they were instructed to detain his crew bag until the message was given to him. I think I'll start driving to work!

Why would a crew even follow through with this. If my company asked me to do this I'd tell them to suck a turd out of my a s s. If this happened to me there isn't a chance in hell I would feel even remotly obligated to respond. I don't feel that another airlines flight crew giving you a message qualifies as positive communication. If they wouldn't give me my bag there is always a sheriff standing around who would be most interested in the reason why they have stolen your property.

 

[rumorhasit]

Cry me a river palerider....the best thing is knowing there are pilots out there unlike you. I put my time in this company to have the opprotunity to fly with most(90%) of the guys/gals I have had the pleasure to talk to. You are obviously part of the other 10%!!!

You "FOUGHT FOR MY LIFE ON AN URBAN BATTLEFIELD" SO HAVE MANY other people...don't sign the papers or take the money and benifits for your tough life then....

BOO BOO you where assigned a wrong trip...you had the legal right to refuse...get over it!!! did you do the trip? You should have been informed about your contract back then...

Here's an option to think about...

Everytime a Lineholder wants a personal drop it will have to be refused because we dont want to inconvience a reserve. Maybe talk to your fellow pilots about legit sickcalls or whatever so we want have to Inconvience a reserve. Some Pilots abuse the system and we all suffer....

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Here's an option to think about...

Everytime a Lineholder wants a personal drop it will have to be refused because we dont want to inconvience a reserve.

Excuse me?? Since when did the schedulers up on the 7th floor of the G.O. even entertain drop requests. Allowing a pilot to drop a trip after a Chief Pilot tells you that you have to... how magnanimous of you.

 

[rumorhasit]

If it a chief pilot wants something he/she is talking to sups. I have given several personal drps...I have also have several questionable sick calls for 4day trips that run into 3 days off...thats why the res. get called...Line pilots need to be more responsible and think of their fellow pilot employees...

 

[Palerider957]

Rumorhasit:

I like the clown face, it fits you and scheduling PERFECTLY.

I don't normally tout my past to make a point, I just didn't want to hear your cry baby shi.t about hauling bags. My service was MY choice, correct. My point being that I've had tough jobs before and had to handle difficult situations--to tell the truth, schedulers stress me much more than armed combat, how fu***ed up is that?

Once again you have the PERFECT attitude--"...should have known your contract." SHOULDN'T YOU KNOW THE CONTRACT AS WELL???? Isnt' that a part of YOUR JOB?? I have my own job to do, I shouldn't have to do YOUR job as well--no pilot should. A scheduler should NEVER deliberately assign an illegal, or contractually forbidden trip.......WHY IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND.....WHY DO YOU RESIST THIS SO MUCH.

As far as legit sick time, or dropping trips....I have NEVER called off sick, never no-showed, never been late. As for the operation, I'm not a part of the PROBLEM. I come to work to WORK.

Guys call off sick because they know they cannot get the day off they need, or they are just tired of the crap. It's easier to call off then to battle the scheduling machine...another simple point.

Maybe I am part of the 10%....I'll tell you this, I'm not going anywhere, and I'll make sure our new TA is aimed directly between crew schedulings eyes. MANY pilots feel this way, they are just afraid of pis.sing you off for fear of being on your shi.t list. Don't kid yourself--no one at this company loves you and your guardian angel just got himself fired!

 

[Palerider957]

Outermarket:

I was aware of the duty pilot, and I have called them for technical probs. I wasn't aware they involved themseles in Sched. issues.

I do try to make use of what resources we have, sometimes more sucessfully than others.

Jesus, I'm getting myself all pis.sed off in this thread. Time to call it quits, going home tomorrow for a few days break.

 

[rumorhasit]

what the h3ll do you mean "guardian Angel"

and the clown...was pretty cool

 

[FmrFreightDog]

If it a chief pilot wants something he/she is talking to sups. I have given several personal drps...I have also have several questionable sick calls for 4day trips that run into 3 days off...thats why the res. get called...Line pilots need to be more responsible and think of their fellow pilot employees...

And what exactly, in your vast experience, makes for a questionable sick call? Just because I call in sick for a 4 day trip that has 3 days off after it it becomes a "questionable" sick call. Your job is to cover trips not to pass judgement on whether or not I'm really sick when I use my CONTRACTUALLY GUARANTEED sick time.

I agree, we should call in sick responsibly. However, I don't think it's your place to try and decide who is sick and who isn't.

 

[void]

divide and conquer

Pilots, dispatchers, schedulers.

I've seen the best, the worst and everything in between of all three groups.

Bicker between the groups and management gets the last laugh, because it takes some of the heat off themselves.

 

[rumorhasit]

fmrfreightdog...

The idea was to show what can be construed as a missuse of the system. It's not my job to judge sickcalls and I don't but I can question in my own mind. I am sure you or someone you know has called in sick when you just don't feel like working? I have...

 

[bailout]

>>The idea was to show what can be construed as a missuse of the system. It's not my job to judge sickcalls and I don't but I can question in my own mind. I am sure you or someone you know has called in sick when you just don't feel like working? <<

I personally know a couple of pilots who have called in sick when they cant get on their commuting flight into ATL. Yes it ticks me off.
Palerider, I agree with just about everything you are saying, but I handle it a little differently. Its human nature, you will get much more out of someone that you are nice too. If its not legal, I talk to them in a calm manner and usually end up working it out with everyone happy. If not I say thank you, hang up and call the hotline or C/P. They are standoffish at times, but I think that is because people yell at them all the time. I have overheard pilots going off on schedulers on the phone in ops, in a big way using every word in the book, simply because they are pissed that they were extended for one round trip. Do you go off when the putz at Burger King gives you Sprite instead of a Coke? Its just not worth it. As the saying goes,. "Know your audience" It will get better. I am with you on the T/A !
Rumor, kudos to you for posting on here.

 

[crewguru]

Is it just me, or are all Crew Schedulers born with an extra sphincter between their eyes???
QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but are all pilots born with a di.ck on their forehead?

I am also a crew scheduler. I have worked in this department for over a year, after having been a ticketing/gate agent. I hear your pain, but the truth is, all our jobs suck. Yes, I get to go home to my boyfriend and dog everynight, but that is because I choose to. No one forced you to become a pilot, as no one forced me to become a scheduler. From the sound of it, you have been a regional pilot for years. Why are you still doing it? Is it worth it? It must be.

I am not defending all schedulers here. There are those who "hate" certain crew members and do all they can to screw with them. But there are those of us who do everything in our power to help out. I have helped out numerous people. I have found other people to cover last rt's, so that someone could catch an earlier commute and not sit around the airport for 5 hrs. I have given whole rsv days off so someone could go to the doctor or attend a community garage sale. I have told people to stay home b/c they sound like sh.it and had no business coming to work. I have spent hours figuring out a trip swap b/w 4 ca's, just so one could have a whole week off.

Numerous other things come to mind, but for the sake of covering my own a.ss from mng, I will not list them here. I am not the scheduling saint, by any means. I have done my share of extended and jr-manning, as well as building trips with dhd's to and from a base just to cover a rt. But do I enjoy it? No. I usually try to pass it off to one of the other scheduler's b/c I feel horrible about it. I also recall calling a couple different people over the past year to jr-mann them, and because of some sob story they tell me, I let them go and tell them to pretend I didn't call.

What makes me bitter is that fact that no one can say thank you. Boo-hoo you say, but it makes a difference. When I make my job harder just to accomadate someone else, I deserve some respect and some gratitude. I do not have to do these things. I can be the biggest bit/ch you've ever met. But I do feel sorry for you guys. I know you are dealing with tough situatuons and attitudes. And we appreciate it.

I know my company has been really fu(ked up lately. What with the number of resigantions we've had, it's a wonder we are still operating. I couldn't begin to tell you the number of people we jr-manned or extended for oct, or the number of people who flew over 95 hrs for the month. There is probably not a ca in the company who wasn't jr-manned in oct. (I don't think they want to hear you sob stories either) We even have one ca who is timing out for the YEAR in the middle of nov! Now that sucks! These people have flown 90 some hrs, with many as low as 6-7 days off for the month. These are great people!! I thank you and am in awe of you.

But that doesn't excuse the lack of bad attitudes and bad manners that are directed at schedulers. When I come to work in the wee hours of the morning, sit down at my desk, and look at open time and segs for the week, I want to pull my hair out. !0 open trips, 40 open segs,(for a week) mostly for pilots. Do you know when the last time we had even one ca or fo on rsv was? Probably back in aug or sep. But to complete ours jobs we have to cover this stuff. We have to find anyone who can cover these. Then throw the whole broken a/c thing into the pile and you have a huge mess. Do you understand how frustrating it is when you have three open rt's to cover for the day, with no rsv's and mx asks you for a crew to repo a plane out of mht. Then when you tell them no, they go to your boss and he comes to you to find someone.

And as for the remark about scheduling causing someone's divorce, give me a break. It sounds like they didn't need any help. I am so sick and tired of being the brunt of everyone's problems. If you don't like your job, find another. I know this may sound a little harsh, but I read the same whines and grumbles on here all the time. Obviously there is no one airline that is better than another.

One week management is the devil. I guess this week its scheduling. But don't clump everyone together. I know the regs, I have my own highlighted copy of the contract. (And I still have pilots calling me to ask me how much a canx seg is worth.) I can do my job better than anyone here. But don't talk sh.it about me, cause I don't deserve it. I ain't your boss, spouse, or child. I am your equal.

I may not have as much education as you, or as much experience in the airline industry. But I don't make as much money as you either. And b/f you gripe about per diem rates and 75 hr months, let me ask you a question. Have to ever lived on fourteen thousand dollars a year? That's $14,000.00. Not $20,000, not $25,000. $14,000!!!! Why don't I change careers, as my advice to you was? Probably for the same reasons as you. I can't afford to. I can't afford to go back to school without student loans. And I can't get them for only one or two classes. And I can't attend more than one or two classes at a time while working a forty hour plus week. So can we all agree that we are all under paid, overworked, and unappreciated?

I am only speaking here from my own personal experience. My comments may not reflect every airline and/or crew scheduler. You may very well have the grand dame of scheduling bit.ches at your company. I just wanted to speak my peace and let everyone know that not all of us are out to get you. It is not my purpose everyday to to come to work and see how many lives I can screw over.

P.S. Just a thank you again to my dedicated and hardworking crew members. You have been through a lot the past couple of months and our many thanks are with you.

 

[Palerider957]

Crewguru:

Fair enough, I appreciate that not all Schedulers are out to get pilots and not all pilots are easy to work with (yours truly included )

I have been around the block a few times and, like I said above, I understand that planes break, people get sick, and all of a sudden you find yourself with no coverage.

My problem is this (as I said above) the outright lies and deliberate contractual violations in scheduling. The examples I gave above are only a couple of incidents. At my company scheduling tries to convince SENIOR pilots of the most rediculous things. A few days ago I spoke with a 19 year Captain who bid reserve last month, he was unlawfully extended from a nap for an additional overnight. The general consensus of schedulers on this board is "tough, he should have known the contract!" And, yes he should have, but that's no excuse for sched. assigning him an unlawful trip, knowing he hadn't been on reserve for over a decade. I sat him down and schooled him on reserve rules and some of the tricks played by CS. If the Feds ever review his duty time, HE will be the one to burn, not CS.

I know the company tells you to fill the trips anyway you can, some schedulers take that to mean pull out the bag of dirty tricks, on the least suspecting people. Others, like yourself it seems, try to work honorably--believe it or not, I do appreciate your efforts.

When you are in a jam, if you took the time to explain why your short calling, extending, JM'ing, Drafting, etc....you would get much more cooperation out of pilots. It sounds like you do this already....many schedulers don't, if you question them you get "are you refusing this trip!!!" (That's when I hang up on them and go right to the CPO and ALPA) Again, even if I wanted to fly, the attitude and disrespect makes my blood boil.

When people on this board say "you only work 75 hrs. a month"---than it's my turn to through out the bullsh.it card. I may FLY 75 hrs a month, but that does not include the HOURS spent on the ramp trying to make this airline work, or the calls to maint., time waitng for a release, etc.,etc,. etc., In the Brasilia days a 6 leg day blocked for 5 hrs could easily equate a 13 hour day.--but hey I only worked 5 hours??? The actual flying time is the EASIEST part of this job, it's the crap on the ground the really pi.sses pilots (and FA's) off. Believe it or not, I do love my job and almost all of the people I work with...the glitch is that I don't see the struggling with CS as a part of my job.

Crewguru, all I ask is that Scheduling follow the contract thats been in place for years. If in doing that trips cannot be covered, then we are understaffed and Management needs to know that.

A new TA will go a long way at this airline, when there is a seniority based reserve system, a fly-don't fly list, and other things respecting senioirty--a lot of this galatic struggle will fade away. It will take time to build trust between CS and Pilots, but eventually it will make ALL of our jobs easier. This way, if I bid reserve or relief, I'll know you followed a list in inverse seniority and ended up at me. Right now, there is NO rhyme or reason who is selected for any given trip, and there is no accountability--this is WAY too much administrative power for CS and it lends itself to serious abuses. Pilots have finally had it and it IS going to end.

Having said all of that, I don't know if we work for the same airline or not. If so and I have been shi.tty to you, I aplogize. You said you have been in CS for a year, many of us have had CS salt rubbed in our wounds for years--yes, pilots can be ass.holes, but your fellow schedulers have to take their fair share of responsibility for the bitteness.

Good luck to you.