Crew Sched called 8 times

[Palerider957]

This may not be popular to say, but now is NOT THE TIME to screw with the system. Some of you whiners amaze me. Look around, we have bigger problems right now than "getting back" at schedulers. We have fellow employees that have LOST EVERYTHING and a parent corporation (DAL) that is on the verge of collapse. I don't care who is to blame for this mess, the first priority is to put aside our differences and pull together until this crises is over. I encourage those of you on your WOE campaigns and 100% campaigns to suspend them until we are over this hurdle. Now is NOT THE TIME! When you feel like you've gotten screwed by scheduling, just think of our fellow employees and others who have lost everything. Things could be MUCH worse.

Joe

If ASA had any real organization, or focus, or plan of action, then I might agree with you. Our schedulers have always been the company's pit bulls. When you speak to scheduling, you can hear the chaos and dissaray. Pilots pay the price for the short comings of every other department, and frankly we're tired of it.

Nothing we do at ASA will keep DAL from hitting the ice berg. If we turned in stellar performance, this would not make one iota of difference....not to mention DAL is no longer our parent company.

If Skywest treats up well, and resolves our contract issues, and fires the old ASA management (incl. Wille and every scheduler), then I might be willing to go the extra mile for them. I have no loyalty to DAL, and by the addition of Mesa to DCI, and our sale, DAL has no loyalty to us.

This is where I come out, brother.

 

[IFLYASA]

Well said Joe! I am personally giving 200%. Many of the pilots I talk to agree. It is only a vocal minority that is trying to disrupt things. It is time for the silent majority to use peer pressure to educate those people that they are doing more harm than good. Is everthing perfect? No, it never is.

You are falling into Managements trap. If we start giving 110%, management will continue with their game because there wouldn't be any incentive to settle anything with the pilot' s or flight attendants... Don't you remember the last contract?? It finally took all the pilots to write legal write-ups to bring the company to a stand still. Then they gave in and settled. It shouldn't be that way. That's managements choice, NOT OURS!!! Management guides the direction. If they treat us well, we treat them well. That shi*t on us, they get shat upon... Any other company I have worked for gives you rewards for doing well. This place is way to corrupt. Spit out your Kool-aid and rinse with scope. By the way, I do single engine taxi, I do try to make on time performance. If I'm late, I willl hurry on the ground. I only do this for the passengers, because they rely on us. I could give a fat dang about management.

 

[captain caveman]

Well said Joe! I am personally giving 200%. Many of the pilots I talk to agree. It is only a vocal minority that is trying to disrupt things. It is time for the silent majority to use peer pressure to educate those people that they are doing more harm than good. Is everthing perfect? No, it never is.

Who is being disruptive? We're just talking about doing our jobs. Pilots trying not to be exploited are not being disruptive.

And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If ASA had any real organization, or focus, or plan of action, then I might agree with you. Our schedulers have always been the company's pit bulls. When you speak to scheduling, you can hear the chaos and dissaray. Pilots pay the price for the short comings of every other department, and frankly we're tired of it.

Nothing we do at ASA will keep DAL from hitting the ice berg. If we turned in stellar performance, this would not make one iota of difference....not to mention DAL is no longer our parent company.

Well, using your logic, not turning in a stellar performance also won't make "one iota of difference", correct? In other words, if going above and beyond doesn't make any difference, what does doing the opposite accomplish at this time?

As to your comment,
"If ASA had any real organization, or focus, or plan of action",
I might agree with you if ALPA had any "real organization, or focus, or plan of action". However ALPA is suffering from the exact same shortcomings.

If Skywest treats up well, and resolves our contract issues, and fires the old ASA management (incl. Wille and every scheduler), then I might be willing to go the extra mile for them. I have no loyalty to DAL, and by the addition of Mesa to DCI, and our sale, DAL has no loyalty to us.

This is where I come out, brother.

Well "brother", you may not have any loyalty to DAL, but whether you like it or not, DAL pays the bills. Without DAL, there will be no ASA. My loyalty right now lies with who can deliver me a paycheck. ALPA won't deliver you a paycheck, and ALPA doesn't necessarily do what is best for it's membership.

"Brother" Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

Who is being disruptive? We're just talking about doing our jobs. Pilots trying not to be exploited are not being disruptive.

If I was being "exploited" as you say, I would quit. I have to question the judgement of one who remains with a company who "exploits" them. Is someone forcing you to be "exploited"?

And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.

GPT station personal. ASA flew in relief supplies yesterday for these employees. I guess they were just being "exploited".

Joe

 

[JoeMerchant]

Don't you remember the last contract?? It finally took all the pilots to write legal write-ups to bring the company to a stand still. Then they gave in and settled.

I remember it VERY well. That was a VERY DIFFERENT TIME under VERY DIFFERENT circumstances. Look around, this isn't 1998.

 

[NickASA]

Don't harp on the schedulers. Just like you, they have a job to do and they try to do it to the best of their ability. Their job is to get the trips covered. From their perspective, if pilots would just show up for their trips, then their wouldn't be a problem.

If you have a problem with the staffing levels or scheduling/work rules, then take if up with your Chief Pilot. Leave the schedulers be.

Sure so when I was assigned a trip that was contractually illegal and scheduling said to bad and the chief pilot said grieve it. You're an idiot.

 

[601Pilot]

re: Joe Barnett

This may not be popular to say, but now is NOT THE TIME to screw with the system. Some of you whiners amaze me. Look around, we have bigger problems right now than "getting back" at schedulers. We have fellow employees that have LOST EVERYTHING and a parent corporation (DAL) that is on the verge of collapse. I don't care who is to blame for this mess, the first priority is to put aside our differences and pull together until this crises is over. I encourage those of you on your WOE campaigns and 100% campaigns to suspend them until we are over this hurdle. Now is NOT THE TIME! When you feel like you've gotten screwed by scheduling, just think of our fellow employees and others who have lost everything. Things could be MUCH worse.

Joe

Well Skip (didn't you leave today???)..oh, I mean Joe, I'm pretty sure DAL will
still be paying the bill for our service to our new owner even in bankruptcy.
I see no way DAL can avoid bankruptcy at this time, so nothing we do will
stop it. I doubt we will see any change in service or how we operate on a
daily basis. On the other hand, I expect to see our contract negotiations
come to a stand still as the company will blame the change of ownership
and they will probably want to start over from the beginning. That's what
I'm waiting to see.

As far as the flying goes, you fly the way you want. You probably know ASA
better than I do and you know that it does not take any extra effort to be
late every day.

I guess the motto - "Fly fast, burn Skip's gas" is going to have to be changed
today. Any ideas for a new one?

 

[bailout]

>And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.<

There is a list on MJs desk of about 35 pilots that are still not heard from.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well Skip (didn't you leave today???)..oh, I mean Joe,

Ahhh.... yes... the old you must be management argument technique. Very predictable. For the record, I'm glad he is moving on down the road. I also would like to see CT move on down the road. While we're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing some people in ALPA, starting with our hypocritical Pres. DW move on down the road.

I'm pretty sure DAL will
still be paying the bill for our service to our new owner even in bankruptcy.

Only if we are cost competitive with the competition. You are familiar with what happened to ACA, Air Wisc., ALG, and PDT after USAir and United filed BK? They all had very good contracts, and now 3 of the 4 are either gone or do not provide lift for UAL/USAir. The 4th. did not get any new flying and took paycuts.

I guess the motto - "Fly fast, burn Skip's gas" is going to have to be changed
today. Any ideas for a new one?

First of all, it's OUR gas and OUR company. We don't have Skip's golden parachute. Secondly, you might want to try "cut off our nose to spite our face" for a motto.

 

[ASADriver]

You are falling into Managements trap. If we start giving 110%, management will continue with their game because there wouldn't be any incentive to settle anything with the pilot' s or flight attendants... Don't you remember the last contract?? It finally took all the pilots to write legal write-ups to bring the company to a stand still. Then they gave in and settled. It shouldn't be that way. That's managements choice, NOT OURS!!! Management guides the direction. If they treat us well, we treat them well. That shi*t on us, they get shat upon... Any other company I have worked for gives you rewards for doing well. This place is way to corrupt. Spit out your Kool-aid and rinse with scope. By the way, I do single engine taxi, I do try to make on time performance. If I'm late, I willl hurry on the ground. I only do this for the passengers, because they rely on us. I could give a fat dang about management.

I don't do anything for management. You think that slowing things down will change the way management deals with us. That won't happen in this environment. ALPA has screwed up by allowing us all to compete with each other. Management can make a lateral move - we can't. Who has the leverage? If I could make a lateral move, I might agree with you. If I have to start all over again at the bottom, I'm not going to shut this place down. Huge tactical error on our part.

 

[ASADriver]

Who is being disruptive? We're just talking about doing our jobs. Pilots trying not to be exploited are not being disruptive.

And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.

I'm not being exploited. You are trying to be disruptive to make a point.

We have had fellow employees who have lost everything because of Katrina and you are only worried about yourself.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think a lot of the crew scheduling problem got "fixed" when Delta pulled down our flying for September. We have excess crews now. This fact, plus the decent weather ATL is having has noticably reduced the stress levels on everyone.

 

[Palerider957]

Well "brother", you may not have any loyalty to DAL, but whether you like it or not, DAL pays the bills. Without DAL, there will be no ASA. My loyalty right now lies with who can deliver me a paycheck. ALPA won't deliver you a paycheck, and ALPA doesn't necessarily do what is best for it's membership.

"Brother" Joe

This is why you will always be a regional peasant, trading hours for dollars, and totally beholden to your ungrateful master.

 

[Palerider957]

>And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.<

There is a list on MJs desk of about 35 pilots that are still not heard from.

And you can bet the company will take disciplinary action against them. I'll bet scheduling is busy compiling a lists of "no-shows" and is packing on the occurences. One more thing ALPA will have to negotiate away before our contract is completed.

Having said that, I truly hope all of our people are safe.

 

[JoeMerchant]

And you can bet the company will take disciplinary action against them. I'll bet scheduling is busy compiling a lists of "no-shows" and is packing on the occurences. One more thing ALPA will have to negotiate away before our contract is completed.

Palerider,
The company has flown in relief supplies, trucked in relief supplies, and evacuated employees from other airlines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe:

Palerider is correct about the Company capitalizing on their employees' misfortune my piling on the occurrences when a natural disaster strikes. In fact I have a couple of "occurrences" that I "earned" while water was pouring through gaping holes in my roof after a hurricane.

ASA has, and will, victimize their employees in some of the most horrible ways imaginable. You were here. You know the stories of employees who were fired during our last contract for going home to be with their dying parents and you know ALPA had to negotiate to get their jobs back.

You are right - bottom line is that Delta may be out for the 10 count before long. The Wall Street Journal mentioned short term insolvency if Delta doesn't get their Chapter 11 package to the Courthouse. I think we ASA pilots should do everything possible to keep ASA and by extension Delta on its feet because it does benefit us in the short term.

However, ASA has a few managers who deserve whatever they get. These few are some of the most malevolent people walking the face of this planet and they have managed us right to the point where we are now. These people hate pilots and they let you know it every opportunity they can.

All of us hired into ASA full of optimisim, faith, and willing to go the extra mile to see our airline succeed. Our natural inclination is to take pride in our work and where we work. Lets face it, it took a bunch of abuse for us to give up and start digging trenches. Most of us are entrenched and perfectly willing to shut this place down.

But - we are even more willing to see a revolution. I'm sure everyone would prefer that ASA be an airline customers prefer to fly, feeding a big and increasingly international Delta mainline.

Our line employees must treat our customers like friends. Our middle level managers need to realize that the front line employees are their customers and treat them the way they want us to treat the passengers. "Good Goes Round" that motto has to include the middle level managers too.

One fast way for SkyWest to establish street cred with the ASA pilots (and the financial community) is to send some of the little hitlers packing.

~~~^~~~

 

[JoeMerchant]

My good friend Fins, I agree with most of what you said. I agree that we have some lame middle and upper level managers. My point is we shouldn't get tunnel vision on trying to get even with these managers. ALPA's failures over the years have zapped our leverage. There is no unity in this so called union. Many of ALPA's leaders suffer from the same disease that inflicts ASA management. I am confident that SKYW will improve things. Unfortunately I can't same the same about ALPA.

Fins, I had my sword out in '98. I also fought the good fight while our CMR brothers were on strike. I picketed in '98 and in '01 with the CMR pilots. Now is not the time to pick a fight with our new owners. We must concentrate on circling the wagons, growing the company, and reforming our sorry excuse for a union. Only then can we return to battle.

 

[601Pilot]

Ahhh.... yes... the old you must be management argument technique. Very predictable. For the record, I'm glad he is moving on down the road. I also would like to see CT move on down the road. While we're at it, I wouldn't mind seeing some people in ALPA, starting with our hypocritical Pres. DW move on down the road.

Only if we are cost competitive with the competition. You are familiar with what happened to ACA, Air Wisc., ALG, and PDT after USAir and United filed BK? They all had very good contracts, and now 3 of the 4 are either gone or do not provide lift for UAL/USAir. The 4th. did not get any new flying and took paycuts.

First of all, it's OUR gas and OUR company. We don't have Skip's golden parachute. Secondly, you might want to try "cut off our nose to spite our face" for a motto.

I agree CT and DW should go, but you'll have to talk to some of the big players
in ALPA to get DW out. The regionals don't have much power at the national
level.

The last time I checked we were cost competitive with SkyWest. I fully
anticipate that Skywest will shift all of our 70 flying to them and some of their
50 flying to us because of the difference in rates. If we don't have any 70s,
then the pay rate is irrelevant. Since we are a couple of bucks cheaper (at
the moment) on the 50, it would make business sense for them. I don't
like it, but that is what I'm waiting to see.

First of all, it's DAL's gas and DAL's company. If this is your only job, then
you are definitely in the minority here at ASA. Most of the people I know
have other jobs or, at the least, a good contigency plan. Secondly, your
motto is not catchy enough. I'll keep working on it; maybe something with
Bryan in mind.

 

[wms]

>And which of our fellow employees lost everything? I don't know any.<

There is a list on MJs desk of about 35 pilots that are still not heard from.

The FO I flew with yesterday lived in New Orleans. She hasn't been able to get to her home, but a neighbor told her there is nothing left. I was surprised she was at work, but like she said, hanging around moping won't help.