Crew Briefings: Takeoff, Approach, Landing

[Lead Sled]

My brief: Takeoff today is "standard". Touch and goes and landings will be "standard". This works because we have a set of standards that we work with daily. However, if we want to deviate from them, we'll address the differences. This makes for a nice, quick, understandable briefing.

I really disagree with the wisdom of that approach. Although you may have a "standard" briefing that, on paper, involves various items and contingencies, merely stating "standard briefing" is simply not enough on an ongoing basis. At some point, over a period of days, weeks, or months, the "standard" briefing will morf into the otherwise meaningless phrase and the components that are supposedly included in it will be lost.

I flew for a company where several of their pilots habitually used the phrase "Standard Briefing". Over a period of time I asked these guys just exactly what the standard briefing was. The typical answer was: "You know, the standard briefing." That's not good enough. If you're going to go that route you need to at least ocassionally give the entire briefing - I suggest at least for each pilot's first leg of the day. You can't be in that big of a hurry.

'Sled

 

[TIS]

I flew for a company where several of their pilots habitually used the phrase "Standard Briefing". Over a period of time I asked these guys just exactly what the standard briefing was. The typical answer was: "You know, the standard briefing." That's not good enough. If you're going to go that route you need to at least ocassionally give the entire briefing - I suggest at least for each pilot's first leg of the day.

That wasn't out of OAK was it?

 

[soarby007]

I don't use the term "standard briefing", but do use the term "standard callouts", as that is pretty much the same every flight. I always brief the general plan, especially at places other than home base.

One guy I fly with though insists on pointing out the exact location of the windsock at home base on every single flight. This started about 4 months ago. This kind of stuff I find almost condescending as I have told him I have noticed the windsock has not been relocated in the last 8 years and it isn't necessary to tell me where it's located.

 

[Lead Sled]

I don't use the term "standard briefing", but do use the term "standard callouts", as that is pretty much the same every flight. I always brief the general plan, especially at places other than home base.

One guy I fly with though insists on pointing out the exact location of the windsock at home base on every single flight. This started about 4 months ago. This kind of stuff I find almost condescending as I have told him I have noticed the windsock has not been relocated in the last 8 years and it isn't necessary to tell me where it's located.

We pretty much do it that way as well. Our "standard callouts" are: "Airspeed Alive", "Cross-Checked at 80", "90 Knots" (to transition off of the tiller), "V1", "Rotate", and finally, "Positive Rate".

By the way, what windsock?

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

That wasn't out of OAK was it?

That's the correct coast, but no, it wasn't.

'Sled

 

[Oakum_Boy]

B1tch, let me nizzle this drizzle, and keep yo han off da pizzle lizzle. If I tell you to put the gizzle dizzle, you betta comply awful fizzle, else I slap you to the curb, my mizzle.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

That's the correct coast, but no, it wasn't.

'Sled

You were a VNY boy?

So let's see, tiller at 90, well, not a GV or GIV, perhaps a GIII or CL?

Ace

 

[bafanguy]

I'm only curious after flying with a new captain last week that briefed the above completely different from anything I'd ever heard (a by-product of his many years in another flight dept.) Theres probably no right way or wrong way, but I'm curious to see what you guys got!

Our company policy dictates that for takeoff, the pilot flying covers: V-Speeds and Power Settings, Emergency Contingincies, Review Clearance, and ask if theres any questions.

User,

As a FO, you're in a bit of a difficult spot when His Royal High Holiness decides he doesn't have to play the game the way he's paid to play it ( thereby compromising the quality of the operation and making your job that much more difficult ). You said, "There's probably no right or wrong way...". I would just suggest that there is, in fact, a "right" way: the way outlined in your company ops manual, and apparently, your manual does this.

When HRHH is going to fly and doesn't address the issues adequately, bug the livin' squat outta him with questions until you're satisfied you understand what he has in mind. Maybe he'll get tired of that and just give you a proper briefing.

When you fly, just do what you're supposed to do, the way you're supposed to do it until there's a very good reason not to.

I've had some pretty good training from FO's over the years. Maybe the guy you mentioned has just gotten a bit complacent without realizing it.

 

[Lead Sled]

You were a VNY boy?

So let's see, tiller at 90, well, not a GV or GIV, perhaps a GIII or CL?

Ace

North, a lot further north.

 

[Lead Sled]

When you fly, just do what you're supposed to do, the way you're supposed to do it until there's a very good reason not to.

Every once in a while there is a real pearl posted on these forums - simple yet profound. These are words of wisdom from someone who has been around the block several times. Bafanguy, thank you.

'Sled

 

[Huggyu2]

Our standards are written down, so they should be fairly explicit. I don't like briefings where the pilot doing the brief restates every single item that is repeated day in-and-out. Why? Because, people get bored hearing it, their minds wander momentarily, and then they miss the "new" information that is getting briefed.
I like it when the briefer says "Standard... standard,.... standard except that today we're going to blah, blah, blah." Now, he's not wasting my time repeating the same thing I've heard for years, and I'm totally focused on what's different today (wet runway, crosswind, departure obstacle, noise abatement, whatever).
If the pilots don't know the standards, we've identified a weak area, and they will be expected to improve. But, being professionals is what it's all about, and using briefing standards improves the safety and brevity of the briefings that I give.

 

[Lead Sled]

Huggy...
I don't like briefings where the pilot doing the brief restates every single item that is repeated day in-and-out either and for precisely the reason you mentioned - people do get bored and don't pay attention. But that's not an excuse to never use it. Reread my original post.

Just for grins ask one of your less experienced pilots, at a time when s/he isn't expecting it, to recite quickly and accurately your standard briefing. If they can't do it you probably need to review your policy. Just a thought.

'Sled

 

[soarby007]

Well the windsock comment goes like this. After the usual rote briefing, he says "and right there is the windsock, do you see it?" Yep, been in the same location for at least twenty years. Nothing unusual at all, just crap. Already have the winds from the tower within the last twenty seconds.

 

[User546]

Thanks Bafan for the comments.

You had a really good suggestion with bugging the guys with questions until I get a good solid briefing! I got a four-day coming up with this guy this week, so hopefully we can get something worked out before the end of it, that or he'll probably never want to fly with me again!

And this question is open to everyone - but what do you suggest I do, or how should I handle it with him if he still refuses to give the company defined briefing, and isn't making an effort to atleast learn or attempt it?

Theres a lot of good captains on this board that got to have some good suggestions for a low-time FO on how to handle this. (I'm still learning all the tips and tricks of the CRM game)

 

[Lead Sled]

Thanks Bafan for the comments.

You had a really good suggestion with bugging the guys with questions until I get a good solid briefing! I got a four-day coming up with this guy this week, so hopefully we can get something worked out before the end of it, that or he'll probably never want to fly with me again!

And this question is open to everyone - but what do you suggest I do, or how should I handle it with him if he still refuses to give the company defined briefing, and isn't making an effort to atleast learn or attempt it?

Theres a lot of good captains on this board that got to have some good suggestions for a low-time FO on how to handle this. (I'm still learning all the tips and tricks of the CRM game)

What are you flying? 91 or 135?