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Crash off Miami beach

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A similar accident happened to a Grumman Mallard in St. Croix harbor in 1986.

The cause of the accident was that the aileron cables had been rubbing the insulation from the generator main feed cable.
When the metal finally made contact, shortly after take-off, the current snapped the aileron cable and they lost control and dove in.
Pax and crew survived the impact, but one woman drowned.

Don't remember if it was a turbine Mallard or a piston one.

Sombody once said that half the Mallards ever built have crashed over the years...Not sure if that is a fact or not.

As for the PT-6 having problems: Don't know about that. I got 2000 hours on PT-6s and found them as reliable as a hammer.
 
aeronautic1 said:
The PT6 cannot be ruled out as it is notorious for problems.
Click to expand...

Care to be more specific? Military trainers use the PT-6 and don't seem to have an inordinate amount of accidents attributed to the engine.
 
aeronautic1 said:
18 pax with holiday luggage, gifts, supplies etc... you know this airplane was at max gross or more.
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Guys, Aeronautic is an idiot. Check his old posts, he's the same guy who thinks 35K is good pay for a Galaxy pilot...nuff said.

obviously he has the same knowledge about PT6s and W&B as he does his own worth.

19 people dead 3 hours ago and he's already made the NTSB report and pinned it on the pilots.

JACKOFF.
 
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Hey Aeronautic,
Could you please enlighten all of us with PT-6 experience about the "problems" with the it? IUn my recollection there has never been a reported case of either an uncontained engine fire or catastrophic turbine failure. I could be wrong, but thats what I was told in my training.
Regardless, I wouldn't begin to speculate about the cause. I think it is more important to focus on the loss to the families involved. A very sad day.
 
The basic PT-6 was designed to pump oil out of the ground while running continuously for 10,000 or more hours. Keep the fuel tank full, make sure there's oil, and it will run.

RIP to all involved. Very sad news.
 
But of course Scary Mary is putting in her 2 cents worth
 
Aeronautic

Kaman said:
Hey Aeronautic,
Could you please enlighten all of us with PT-6 experience about the "problems" with the it? IUn my recollection there has never been a reported case of either an uncontained engine fire or catastrophic turbine failure. I could be wrong, but thats what I was told in my training.
Regardless, I wouldn't begin to speculate about the cause. I think it is more important to focus on the loss to the families involved. A very sad day.
Click to expand...
I would also like to enlighten on all the uncontained engine fires or turbine blade failures.If you have ever attended FlightSafety International that is one of the most reliable engines on the market and there was never a catastrophic turbine failure or engine fire associated with a PT-6 engine.Sounds like a classic case of open mouth and insert foot.
 
aeronautic1 said:
"I know that if the my buddy did the weight and balance, it was good to go."

You obviously have never worked for any Florida to Bahamas operator. Over gross is a way of life.

I still stand by my speculation that it was a wing failure. The PT6 cannot be ruled out as it is notorious for problems.

Speculate? Sure. Why should WSVN have all the fun.

BTW... my prayers to the crew, passengers and their family. There is a God, obviously.
Click to expand...

You're a moron.

There are certain people in this world that hold themselves and the others around them to higher standards. The reason the copilot isn't where I work anymore is for that very reason. So when I say that airplane wouldn't have taken off overloaded, as long as the BOW he was given was good, then I mean what I say. PD is the type of person who would have walked off the aircraft rather than subject himself and his passengers to an overloaded or out of C.G. aircraft.

The last two sentences don't cover up for the first part of your message. If you were a professional, you wouldn't be speculating. @$$hole.
 
My full respects and sympathies to the pilots, families and friends as well as the passengers. It is unfortunate that this stuff happens.

I have about 1100 hours PT-6 PIC time, all out of South Florida to the bahamas. The PT-6 is known to be an extremely reliable engine. However there is one thing to note. There have been problems w/ the exhaust outlets and fittings on the pt-6. From my experience with the Caravans I flew we did have a few problems w/ the exhaust fittings, I think one may have come close to burning off. I'm not sure where exactly the fuel tanks are on the Grumman but it would interesting to see where they are in relation to exhuast provided there was some exhaust failure.

One other thing I would like to mention. I thought it was very interesting that a government official said the crash was not terror related less the half an hour after the crash happened. Engines don't just blow up and wings don't just fall off, now thats according to some credible witnesses but who knows. How could someone figure out that it wasn't not terror related less than half an hour after the crash. It is more than likely not terror related but why would the government say that so quickly. Maybe they don't want people panicking during the holidays w/ airline travel. I don't know, just something to think about.
 
edited for language, sanity and out of respect for the folks that died today.

Aeronautic1, you have only one more chance at normal posts before you are done for, my friend. Please play nice.

EF
 
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Regardless of the W/B CG being within limits, it could come into play. Don't want to speculate, but odds are that the plane was close to MTOW with a full load of bags and pax, that certainly could come into play if the airplane had structural failure or hit some submerged object on the takeoff roll.

It's certainly a very sad incident (as is any aircraft accident), and my thoughts go out to those affected. If anybody has access to (or finds) a passenger/crew manifest, please PM me. I would like to add this accident to my accident memorial page.

http://aviation.crosswindlanding.com/remembrance.htm
 
VampyreGTX said:
I just can't believe the unsympathetic posts that I've been seeing more and more of on here.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately many of the people here have something wrong w/ them mentally. Aeronautic1 is obviously a mental defective.

AIR2MUD, my condolences. Let us know how it goes and if you need anything.
 
aeronautic1 said:
edited for language, sanity and out of respect for the folks that died today.

Aeronautic1, you have only one more chance at normal posts before you are done for, my friend. Please play nice.

EF
Click to expand...

Aeronautic1, stop being a tool and quit spurting out such haphazard and ignorant thoughts and speculating/second guessing the pilots, the engines, the weight and balance etc. Nobody cares about YOUR professional findings here at all and if you could just shut your trap that would be great. Let the NTSB determine the facts and report their findings.

My prayers go out to all those deceased and their families involved. A terrible thing to happen to anyone.....
 
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No PT6 problems? Lucky I guess.
Click to expand...

Yeah, PT6's are problematic. That's why they're the choice of several manufacturers and operators in a variety of derivatives. Tool. I've experienced a failure in a sel turbo prop and was lucky enough to land back at the departure airport with no airframe damage. Does it change my attitude towards them? No way and I look forward to many more hours behind them.
Now the news is showing home video of the crash. Looks like wing failure. Very sad. Peace.
 
I also used to work with PD, along with AIR2MUD. He was a good man (as is AIR2MUD), and his integrity was unquestioned. He was very happy to be flying for Chalk's, and I am stunned by this tragic event. Whatever the results of the investigation, we have all lost 2 fellow aviators, and several other families will grieve this week instead of celebrating what is supposed to be a season of happiness.

My prayers are with the families.

Nothing but blue skies now, Paul.
 
I find some of the posts on this thread to be disgustingly unprofessional and insensitive. I have been a faithful member of flightinfo for a few years, tried to contribute where I could, and learned a TON from some of the members here. Unfortunately lately, this place has taken a severe turn for the worse. I had taken no position in the little "rebellion" that took place here in recent weeks, but with disgusting pukes like these, the other side is looking better and better every day.

My heart is broken for each one of these families. As a father, I can't stop thinking about those chilldern on board, who were probably so exited to be flying on such a unique airplane to a tropical island for a week of gifts, happiness and sharing love with their family. I pray for their souls and their families.

As we said before, we are only one flight away from this happening to us. Cherish your loved ones and FLY SAFE!
 
My heartfelt thoughts and prayers to the families of those involved. Couldn't have happened at a worse time of year.

Tragedies such as this serve as a reminder to all of us that we are playing for keeps. Let us use this as an opportunity to remind ourselves that human life is precious beyond all measure and that every time we push the thrust levers up we're taking responsibility for it all. There but for the grace of God (Or for you aethiests; a gigantic chunk of luck and good karma) go all of us.

Remember and hold dear the memories of those Aviators we once counted as friends but are now gone. They fly on with us every time we strap ourselves into an airplane, and we are enriched for having flown with them. If we are truly vigilant and introspective, the circumstances of their demise are recognized as tools to allow us to become safer and more effective, disciplined Aviators.

Rest in peace guys.

Anybody care to post the names of friends now lost to us?

I'll go first.

1Lt Robert Weinman
Keith Trahan
Jerrod Katt

I won't forget.
 
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Hello,
AW3 Michael "Boomer" Bumanglag lost at sea 1984 SH-2F
AW3 William Martnie lost at sea 1985 SH-2F

Both of these young men, barely out of their teens made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. And, many others that are still "on patrol".

Hopefully, some good will come out of this latest accident and we can all learn something that will prevent it from happening again.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 
RIP to the Crew & pax of the Mallard

On a side note, a 1900d in cys did have a turbine come off the shaft during a static TO resulting in an engine fire. The CA pulled the fire handle, and evacuated pax on the runway. Best place to have this happen-on the ground!
 
aeronautic1 said:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Recs/letters/2004/A03_58_61.pdf
Click to expand...

This is but one case and I know of maybe two others directly, but in over 4,000 hours of flying PT-6A powered aircraft, I have have found them to be very reliable. That's probably one of the greatest reasons the PT-6 is retrofitted to the Mallards.

I am praying for those involved and their loved ones.
 
Over 4,000hrs in PT-6 powered aircraft. No engine failures or shutdowns.
2,500hrs in Allison 501 powered aircraft (Herk). 10 engine failures/shutdowns.

F/O Clark Hurd
DC-3 BQN PR
1991

RIP
 
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Knwing the age of the fleet, probably lost a wing like that C130 fire bomber. That's my guess.
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You should have stopped when you were spouting off about the PT6. That much is shear stupidity. I've flown behind them and worked on them, and stake my life on it. But when you brought up T-130, it happens I have personal knowledge there, and clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

What about the age of the aircraft caused the loss? Do YOU know?
 
Wow, that video is hard to watch. My condolences to the families and friends of those who died.

I hitched a ride with Chalks about 5 years ago and it was one of the best experiences I've had in aviation. The Captain, who was (is?) also the Chief Pilot, went out of his way to explain why they couldn't get me on the first flight to Nassau and promised that if I waited around they would get me on the next one. And the landing in Nassau was awesome. Cool crew, great experience.

RIP guys.
 
2LT Justin Campbell, USMC, midair off FL coast near Ormond Beach

Paul DeSanctis, from Reading, PA - Chalk's Ocean Airways

Godspeed and tailwinds gentlemen...a part of me has gone with you.

Until we meet again.
 

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