Could JetBlue be next?

[waveflyer]

Wave I hate to say this dude because I like a lot of your posts, but.....I popped in because a SWA guy posted about buying Hawaiian and you expanded on it, it grew from from there. I'm not a SWA "hater"

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

For what its worth, It isn't necessarily contradictory to say "SW is the worst thing to happen..." And then say, "It's sad SW treats us better than our own company." In fact, they align. (It's sad that the worst thing to happen to the industry treats us better than our own company.)

 

[redflyer65]

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

Bravo. Well stated in every regard.

 

[SWA Bubba]

By the way, I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my okole. I've seen articles were the head of the Hawaii visitors bureau has talked about the importance of Hawaiian to Hawaii. I've seen analysts say no one regions fortunes are as strongly tied together as Hawaii is to Hawaiian. Even the President of ALPA made a statement to the press here saying how important an independent Hawaiian Air is to Hawaii (sorry General!).

Actually, I'm with Dan here. I watch Hawaii Five-O every week, and they push Hawaiian Airlines on a lot of episodes. Heck, it's even featured predominantly in the opening credits! If SWA bought Hawaiian, they'd have to cancel the damn show. No way the locals allow that.

Anyway, Dan- I think you took somebody's bait too seriously. I agree that there's no way a SWA-Hawaiian matchup would work for the reasons you mentioned earlier about no realistic tie-in with our operating model. On the other hand, it was probably most likely a joke in the first place, rather than a serious suggestion.

Bubba

P.S. By the way, I went to Hawaii on vacation recently, and flew over on Hawaiian. I was going to go up to the flight deck and shout, "Screw you Dan Roman! Southwest rulz!" But then I noticed it was a B767 instead of a A330, so it probably wouldn't have been you. Instead of a good laugh, I probably would have just received an escort off the airplane and into a drunk tank somewhere.

 

[dicko]

So you're comparing the AirTran pilots to the Venezuelans?

No. I think he's comparing SWA/SWAPA to Hugo Chavez. A terribly unfair characterization in my opinion.

 

[dicko]

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

Possibly the most intellectually dishonest and delusional post I've ever read. What's next for you Wave ? Are you going to start removing history books from the schools and 'amending' them ?

 

[General Lee]

So you're comparing the AirTran pilots to the Venezuelans?

No, just giving historical perspective. The use of strong armed tactics is NEVER good in any negotiation or election. That would be bad if used at any airline, too. Have a great day!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Possibly the most intellectually dishonest and delusional post I've ever read. What's next for you Wave ? Are you going to start removing history books from the schools and 'amending' them ?

Says the guy who expected DOH and a 50% payraise.

The arbitor most likely would have made the list worse for those at AAI. The most recent decisions bare this out for all to see. Welcome to reality.

 

[Dan Roman]

Actually, I'm with Dan here. I watch Hawaii Five-O every week, and they push Hawaiian Airlines on a lot of episodes. Heck, it's even featured predominantly in the opening credits! If SWA bought Hawaiian, they'd have to cancel the damn show. No way the locals allow that.

Anyway, Dan- I think you took somebody's bait too seriously. I agree that there's no way a SWA-Hawaiian matchup would work for the reasons you mentioned earlier about no realistic tie-in with our operating model. On the other hand, it was probably most likely a joke in the first place, rather than a serious suggestion.

Bubba

P.S. By the way, I went to Hawaii on vacation recently, and flew over on Hawaiian. I was going to go up to the flight deck and shout, "Screw you Dan Roman! Southwest rulz!" But then I noticed it was a B767 instead of a A330, so it probably wouldn't have been you. Instead of a good laugh, I probably would have just received an escort off the airplane and into a drunk tank somewhere.

That would have been pretty classic...and I would have welcomed you wholeheartedly! BTW even Dunkerly had a cameo on the show!

I do plead guilty to being overprotective of what we have here.

 

[Dan Roman]

Ditto. I respect you. But you aren't being honest about being a hater.

If Hawaiian had bought AT at the same time, you would have made every argument (widebodies) to have a SLI slanted in your favor- even though they were the larger, more profitable carrier.

Pilots from other carriers pile on here, bc it's popular to hate on SWA- the contradictions industry wide are amazing- literally came out of the mouth of a captain I flew with at my old legacy: "SWA has been the worst thing for the industry" "it's pretty sad when southwest treats us better than our company does" said about 10 minutes apart

It's a flat out pipe dream that ANY other carrier would have treated AT employees better than SWA has. It's dishonest.

It's also dishonest to think that an arbitrator would have awarded a list better for AT pilots than the list we got.

Where do you think the company got the list they used?

Sat around a BBQ and figured it out themselves?

No, they hired merger consultants, former arbitrators, and formulated what they predicted an arbitrator would do- that's what they did.

they wanted the list EXPEDITED so that the battle wouldn't rage for years on end, disrupt the merger, negatively affect the culture, and set a bad example for the other unions. IE: they were protecting their investment by being pro-active. we can argue the merits of that, but its what they do and they communicated it clearly. We were asked to take the lead in this merger and AGREE to a list without going to arbitration- AT wasn't cooperating with that. From the outset they were playing games, and had no motivation to facilitate everything in a smooth manner. No AT pilot will tell you that their union was a well oiled, unified force for good in this. It was neaurotic as all hell- defying mgmt requests many times along the way, while swapa was cooperating and going about professionally in representing our interests.

Arbitration is a legal right that senators bond and mccaskill came up with in response to TWA- it isn't what the CEO wanted and he verbalized that clearly. He wanted the pilots to lead, set an example as the most consequential seniority list in the company- so that every group didn't feel the need to take their lists all the way to a long drawn out arbitration- agK is the CEO, and that's the way he wanted to lead this company- Or do you think that govt ought to be that hands on in union matters of private companies?

So rewrite history all you want Dan- there is not another pilot group who would've treated AT any better than we have. Not one.

I dare you to say there is, but we all know you don't believe it.

I don't agree with you Wave, but it was very good job of putting your perspective out there. To little time to go all the way through it, but I'll give you an example of were I'm coming from. Your comment indicating "our" widebody flying would be on the table says it all. We wouldn't and shouldn't give that up as well as all the inter-island flying. That's what we bring to the table.