Corporate Airlines (AA Connection) J32 down in MO

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Has anyone seen the tail number of the accident aircraft?

N875JX.

To all 3C er's I used to work with...my thoughts are with you. If there is anything I can do, PLEASE PM me.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Art Bell is back again on the weekends.

Great listening. Two or three hours of nutcases.

It's like a science fiction convention every night.

 

[Donsa320]

This morning CBS news is reporting that the crew had been on duty for over 15 hours at the time of the accident and that the airplane did not have Enhanced Ground Prox. gear, which is not required until next year, and which might have helped prevent the accident.

One can see which direction this thing is headed in. BTW the wx was about 300ft overcast and 3 mi viz. The MDA for the Localizer Approach gets you down to 356 ft above the runway. It would have been a close one.

~D.C.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Art Bell is back again on the weekends.

Great listening. Two or three hours of nutcases.

It's like a science fiction convention every night.

He's been on weekends for months, where have you been?

 

[172driver]

One can see which direction this thing is headed in. BTW the wx was about 300ft overcast and 3 mi viz. The MDA for the Localizer Approach gets you down to 356 ft above the runway. It would have been a close one.

The NTSB seems to think they were on an ILS...

According to preliminary information, the flight was being vectored by the Kansas City Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) for the Distance Measuring Equipment Instrument Landing System (DME ILS) approach to runway 3 at Kirksville. The airplane was cleared to descend from 15,000 feet. The airplane reportedly crashed about 4 miles from the runway during the approach.

Perhaps the G/S was inop or is this bad info?

 

[BoilerUP]

Shut the F**K Up

You people farking kill me. 13 people are dead and you all are arguing about politics, religion and a ton of other SH!T that doesn't matter right now.

Kim Sasse was the Captain, and I forget the name of the FO off hand (I think I recognize both his last name and hometown of CVG). Both names are published in USA Today this morning, along with the story of a survivor. Both survivors were in the exit row...

If saying Godspeed or quoting bible verses gives people comfort in this tragic time, then why dump on them for that. We wouldn't make a joke or smartass remark if your friends were dead. When will some of you realize it could have been ANY of us in that airplane...

 

[Donsa320]

172driver

Dunno, I dropped my subscription for MO last year....only a Localizer approach to Kirksville at that time. Anybody with more current charts out there?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

CFIT?

Respecting that all the facts are not out.

Godbless our fellow pilots...

 

[LarryinTN]

Distance Measuring Equipment Instrument Landing System (DME ILS) approach to runway 3 at Kirksville.

There is no runway 3 and there is no ILS. They probably said, or meant, the LOC/DME Rwy 36.

http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0410/00217LD36.PDF

Perhaps the G/S was inop or is this bad info?

No G/S on a LOC approach. At 4 miles from the airport they should have been about 1500' above the ground.

 

[172driver]

Interesting. My info came right out of the NTSB preliminary report. Now even the official source is spreading misinformation. It appears that you are correct.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20041020X01659&key=1

From Airnav.com:


IAPs - Instrument Approach Procedures

LOC/DME RWY 36 download [size=-1](206KB)[/size]VOR/DME OR GPS-B download [size=-1](164KB)[/size]VOR/DME RNAV OR GPS RWY 18 download [size=-1](218KB)[/size]VOR/DME RNAV OR GPS RWY 36 download [size=-1](201KB)[/size]VOR OR GPS-A download [size=-1](157KB)[/size]

 

[airlinepilot]

NO ILS appoaches at Kirkville

Hey BoilerUP....take a Chill-Pill or just turn off your computer.....sounds like it is getting a little too intense for you dude. After 30 years of flying I have learned a few things....one is that pilots by nature are the first to ask questions, put forth possible scenarios or comment on press/acident releases.....heck in the Air Force the acident board has to publish within 24 hours of a crash an initial finding....known facts. In fact the initial release of "FACTS" in the Air Force helped stop some of the nonsense/speculation I see in the civilian/commercial side....too bad commercial aviation is more worried about liability than safety. Finally all the chit-chat does not mean than anyone has forgotten the personal loss to all involved......

I just looks up the facilities at Kirksville: http://www.kirksvillecity.com/Airport/airport.html

There are NO ILS approaches at that airport so once again the press has it wrong....what a surprise.

 

[BoilerUP]

airlinepilot - REREAD THE POST

I appreciate your 30 years experience, and I don't really mind speculating (too much anyways) because at least airline pilots have their experience on which to base their thoughts, unlike the media and their 'experts'. That was not the purpose of my post.

I take huge umbrage with the fact people are turning this into a political & religious flamewar. Read the last paragraph. Then read all the posts. There are plenty of Kerry vs. Bush and religious threads running on the other boards; If you want to debate those items, do it there.

 

[airlinepilot]

Ok

Maybe you should do what I do....when I start to read a post.....like the ones you talked about.....I don't get past the first few sentences and then I stop reading and ignore furture post from those brainless wonders that seem to find there way to this board.

 

[shroomwell]

They will end up blaiming the pilots as usual. The real resposibility lies with the FAA and the government and their rules allowing pilots work 15 hour days. Unfortunately the status quo will remain the same and this will probably happen again due to the fact that the pilots are essentially zombies at that point in the day. Especially in an aircraft with no AP.

Just my two cents

 

[ALPO]

First I'll say my heart goes to the familys, with that said I'm amazed the power of Americian Airlines to sweep these these things under the carpet and keep this stuff off National News. I didn't even know of this crash till I came on this website, all i heard was twin engine plane crash on CNN. When USAir Mesa crashed in CLT it was National news for three days, front page on USA today. updated reports on the hour. Does anyone remember the AA727 that crashed short of the runway in ORD back the 90s that was 5th page news titled "Rough Landing"

 

[jetexas]

There was barely even an honorable mention, regarding this crash, in the Dallas Morning News yesterday.

 

[climbhappy]

AGPWS is standard on the j31/32. how can a paper like usa today be allowed to write an article as they did today saying the plane lacked safety equipment a la the new terrain warning system.

they act like the pilots had no control over their fate.

one out of two guys should be watching/flying an aproach to the extent that they're ready to take corrective action.

i've been tired too, but if they went below mins or began a visual approach without staying inside, that close to the ground, it's just plain inexperience.

it's not pleasant, but as a captain, you have to get the job done, crappy weather or not. what do you tell the passengers families. the second team was flying that day. reality check.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

CFIT?

Respecting that all the facts are not out.

Godbless our fellow pilots...

My thoughts too. ASA ground recurrent had a similar accident debrief where I believe a Mesaba AC had a CFIT during a non-precision approach in **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty weather. Their AC (Mesaba) was not fitted with a GPWS back then.

 

[AV80R]

»»» Climbhappy,

“AGPWS is standard on the j31/32. how can a paper like usa today be allowed to write an article as they did today saying the plane lacked safety equipment a la the new terrain warning system.”

I believe they were talking about the enhanced GPWS, which is being installed on Corpex airplanes as we speak (deadline is in March I believe and they have been installing them during every heavy maintenance check, at least that’s the info I got) 875 was one of the planes that did not have the EGPWS yet.

”it's not pleasant, but as a captain, you have to get the job done, crappy weather or not.”

I think you’re correct but I’d rather say “as a pilot, whether he or she is a captain OR a first officer, you have to get…”

“..if they went below mins or began a visual approach without staying inside, that close to the ground, it's just plain inexperience...”

I wasn’t fortunate to get to know the first officer, but I am sure he was a great guy and a good pilot. I did know the captain and I was also involved in some of his training several years ago. I assure you Kim was a very experienced and a very safety minded pilot. Reading your post I got the impression you’re implying he was not - and I am sure that’s not what you meant. Let’s face it, we still don’t know what happened, we are just speculating.

“i've been tired too, but…” “the second team was flying that day. reality check.”

I am very happy that you never make any mistakes, even after a looong day at work. Again, I am not implying the crew did, because we just don’t know. I am just happy to know there is at least 1 pilot out there who is NEVER affected by bad weather, by a long duty day, flying at night in bad weather, etc., etc. Again, I am not trying to piss you off. Instead, I respectfully ask you to leave our friends alone at least until we know for sure what happened on that horrible night. You see, they cannot defend themselves from rumors and speculations anymore. Let the NTSB do their work and then we’ll ALL learn from what might have happened to our friends and their passengers. If I misunderstood your comments entirely I do apologize. It’s hard to think clearly when dealing with such a disaster.

Sincerely,

HomeY ​

Corpex guys - are there any funds set up for the families yet? I'd love to contribute. Please PM me or post it here.​

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

AGPWS is standard on the j31/32. how can a paper like usa today be allowed to write an article as they did today saying the plane lacked safety equipment a la the new terrain warning system.

they act like the pilots had no control over their fate.

one out of two guys should be watching/flying an aproach to the extent that they're ready to take corrective action.

i've been tired too, but if they went below mins or began a visual approach without staying inside, that close to the ground, it's just plain inexperience.

it's not pleasant, but as a captain, you have to get the job done, crappy weather or not. what do you tell the passengers families. the second team was flying that day. reality check.

You're a real ass.