Captain Morgan
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Copilot Flying
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Or sometimes its what the boss in the back, who pays the bills, is more comfortable with.
ultrarunner
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Then the boss and his CP 'aint hiring the right people. What a crock!
Flying Illini
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That's it right there.
Brett Hull
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The answer is that it really depends. I've flown for several outfits wherein the copilot/first officer was more of a seat filler than a qualified crewmember. They often hired very inexperienced pilots who really were out of their element, who were not smooth enough nor trustable enough to allow to fly passengers. It was really more on the job training, and I didn't mind doing that when we didn't have passengers on board, the weather was decent, the airspace wasn't busy...but I tried it both ways and found that I ended up regretting allowing them to fly with the pax on board.
Conversely, at one all-jet charter operation, we had a captain who was incompetent. He couldn't be trusted, we all knew it. However, he was a close friend of the chief pilot. The CP was a lonely old man, and this guy invited him for barbeques on a regular basis. I was sent out several times with him as his F/O, him as the Captain, and in each case, I couldn't let him fly the legs with passengers.
I've had F/O's who were sharp enough I had them, or let them, do a lot of the flying. Ones whom I recommended for upgrades shortly after flying with them the first time. I've also had others for whom after several months I submitted letters recommending their dismissal. Weren't gonna cut it. The captain named above received that recommendation from me...and every other pilot in the outfit.
I'm flying with a gentleman right now who, althrough he has considerable experience in type and with this kind of operation, I cannot turn by back on, for even a moment. He's a cowboy and a hazard, and though he's been in the business a long time, he's definitely not a safe pilot. Part of my job right now is to keep him from damaging everything. We trade off legs and seats each time, but regardless of who is flying, I treat the flight as mine as a matter of self preservation. The operator knows this, and is aware of his behaviors. He's severely damaged airplanes in the past. This present operation runs somewhat outside the law, it's accountability is low, and if I intend to remain both safe and legal, it's entirely up to me to pull in the reigns. And I do.
The answer is it depends. Is it uncommon? No, it's common. But it really depends on the operator, the captain, and the nature of the copilot involved. I worked for one operator who wet-leased an airplane (and me with it) to another operator for several months. They had a new captain with helicopter time, but little fixed wing time, and very little turbojet time. I was to ride with him while he gained some experience. He was the new captain for that operator, a four airplane operation with one jet...ours. Nice guy, very detail oriented, very fastidigious about every single detail of flight. However, his boss made it clear that the new guy did all the flying, every bit of it. He ran it professionally,but I was there to fill a seat until he had more time for insurance, and that was it. After three months of babysitting an otherwise professional pilot, I couldn't take it any more...he certainly didn't need me there, and I was crawling out of my skin.
Don't be so fast to knock the CP or the operator. Many operators hire very inexperienced pilots and for the new guy, it's a big break. That the new guy doesn 't end up flying pax while he's learning isn't any great hardship...he gets to learn either way.
Not everything is an airline. Nor should it be.
Conversely, at one all-jet charter operation, we had a captain who was incompetent. He couldn't be trusted, we all knew it. However, he was a close friend of the chief pilot. The CP was a lonely old man, and this guy invited him for barbeques on a regular basis. I was sent out several times with him as his F/O, him as the Captain, and in each case, I couldn't let him fly the legs with passengers.
I've had F/O's who were sharp enough I had them, or let them, do a lot of the flying. Ones whom I recommended for upgrades shortly after flying with them the first time. I've also had others for whom after several months I submitted letters recommending their dismissal. Weren't gonna cut it. The captain named above received that recommendation from me...and every other pilot in the outfit.
I'm flying with a gentleman right now who, althrough he has considerable experience in type and with this kind of operation, I cannot turn by back on, for even a moment. He's a cowboy and a hazard, and though he's been in the business a long time, he's definitely not a safe pilot. Part of my job right now is to keep him from damaging everything. We trade off legs and seats each time, but regardless of who is flying, I treat the flight as mine as a matter of self preservation. The operator knows this, and is aware of his behaviors. He's severely damaged airplanes in the past. This present operation runs somewhat outside the law, it's accountability is low, and if I intend to remain both safe and legal, it's entirely up to me to pull in the reigns. And I do.
The answer is it depends. Is it uncommon? No, it's common. But it really depends on the operator, the captain, and the nature of the copilot involved. I worked for one operator who wet-leased an airplane (and me with it) to another operator for several months. They had a new captain with helicopter time, but little fixed wing time, and very little turbojet time. I was to ride with him while he gained some experience. He was the new captain for that operator, a four airplane operation with one jet...ours. Nice guy, very detail oriented, very fastidigious about every single detail of flight. However, his boss made it clear that the new guy did all the flying, every bit of it. He ran it professionally,but I was there to fill a seat until he had more time for insurance, and that was it. After three months of babysitting an otherwise professional pilot, I couldn't take it any more...he certainly didn't need me there, and I was crawling out of my skin.
Don't be so fast to knock the CP or the operator. Many operators hire very inexperienced pilots and for the new guy, it's a big break. That the new guy doesn 't end up flying pax while he's learning isn't any great hardship...he gets to learn either way.
Not everything is an airline. Nor should it be.
I'd say, while the co-pilot is new it's not uncommon for him to only fly empty legs untill the capt's can gain some confidense in him.
Long term (after the FO has shown competency) the right thing to do, in my opinion, is to have qualified FO's and swap legs. If the FO is unable to become competent, he should be let go. We have to remember some of the reasons the FO is there one being if the Capt. becomes incapacitated. The FO needs to be able to fly the plane. And he should be confident because if he is not he will not preform well when he is truly needed.
Long term (after the FO has shown competency) the right thing to do, in my opinion, is to have qualified FO's and swap legs. If the FO is unable to become competent, he should be let go. We have to remember some of the reasons the FO is there one being if the Capt. becomes incapacitated. The FO needs to be able to fly the plane. And he should be confident because if he is not he will not preform well when he is truly needed.
Great post avbug.
I knew that comment would get some negative action. I am amazed how many people start condemning management for giving a low time guy a break. The fact is everybody has to learn sometime, and a lot of the guys in the back aren't too happy to have someone learning while they are aboard. That is what empty legs are for.
I agree that after some time if the copilot ( don't come down on me for calling him the copilot, that is what the original poster called him) can't handle flying with pax, they need to find another job.
Also, some pax have a lower comfort level than others when it comes to this. I think it is pretty narrow-minded to judge them and start name-calling like an eight-year old, just because of this. There is a lot more to judge a person on than who he wants handling the controls when he or his family is aboard.
I knew that comment would get some negative action. I am amazed how many people start condemning management for giving a low time guy a break. The fact is everybody has to learn sometime, and a lot of the guys in the back aren't too happy to have someone learning while they are aboard. That is what empty legs are for.
I agree that after some time if the copilot ( don't come down on me for calling him the copilot, that is what the original poster called him) can't handle flying with pax, they need to find another job.
Also, some pax have a lower comfort level than others when it comes to this. I think it is pretty narrow-minded to judge them and start name-calling like an eight-year old, just because of this. There is a lot more to judge a person on than who he wants handling the controls when he or his family is aboard.
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