Copilot Flying

[Jeff775621]

I feel like im a seat filler. im a copilot in the citation, when we carry the boss and other pax the paranoid captian i fly with flies the leg, which i can understand. when its just the boss, i usually fly the leg.

 

[ag2pilot]

I feel like im a seat filler. im a copilot in the citation, when we carry the boss and other pax the paranoid captian i fly with flies the leg, which i can understand. when its just the boss, i usually fly the leg.

I'm sorry you feel like a seat filler, but isn't that better than not being there at all, gaining both experience and jet time?
The truth is, with 1350TT, you're not going to get insured to be captain on a jet, and for now, if anything gets bent, no matter who is flying, it is the "paranoid " captain's tail on the insurance chopping block. You could end his career as easily as yours.

And for the guys bagging on the CP, he's next. In this circumstance it runs uphill.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

This thread makes me want to puke... but it also reminds me how happy I am that I quit corporate/charter aviation for good.

Spaz

 

[400A]

If they do not let you fly as a co-pilot, How will you ever learn how to be a Captain?

 

[starcheck208]

Our company only had capt's fly until one got sick and the f/o had to fly for the first time with everyone onboard. Since then, we swap

 

[Buckeye]

I am amazed that people like avbug described continue to fly because of politics. Everyone will look back and say he should have been let go a long time ago, but that is usually after they hurtl some innocent people and bend some metal.

 

[Way2Broke]

In response to AvBug's Post:

There is a big problem with "on the job training" in aviation. Granted, you should always learn something on every flight, but if you can not fly with pax on board its a TRAINING issue. No pilot should be released to fly any plane (all the way down to a cessna 150) if they can not fly it safely.

I would hardly consider it a big break if someone that is not qualified to fly as first officer is in the right seat. I would call it robbing a qualified pilot of a job. Afterall, there are alot of private operations that have virtually no empty legs.

 

[Flybet3]

The answer is that it really depends. I've flown for several outfits wherein the copilot/first officer was more of a seat filler than a qualified crewmember. They often hired very inexperienced pilots who really were out of their element, who were not smooth enough nor trustable enough to allow to fly passengers. It was really more on the job training, and I didn't mind doing that when we didn't have passengers on board, the weather was decent, the airspace wasn't busy...but I tried it both ways and found that I ended up regretting allowing them to fly with the pax on board.

Conversely, at one all-jet charter operation, we had a captain who was incompetent. He couldn't be trusted, we all knew it. However, he was a close friend of the chief pilot. The CP was a lonely old man, and this guy invited him for barbeques on a regular basis. I was sent out several times with him as his F/O, him as the Captain, and in each case, I couldn't let him fly the legs with passengers.

I've had F/O's who were sharp enough I had them, or let them, do a lot of the flying. Ones whom I recommended for upgrades shortly after flying with them the first time. I've also had others for whom after several months I submitted letters recommending their dismissal. Weren't gonna cut it. The captain named above received that recommendation from me...and every other pilot in the outfit.

I'm flying with a gentleman right now who, althrough he has considerable experience in type and with this kind of operation, I cannot turn by back on, for even a moment. He's a cowboy and a hazard, and though he's been in the business a long time, he's definitely not a safe pilot. Part of my job right now is to keep him from damaging everything. We trade off legs and seats each time, but regardless of who is flying, I treat the flight as mine as a matter of self preservation. The operator knows this, and is aware of his behaviors. He's severely damaged airplanes in the past. This present operation runs somewhat outside the law, it's accountability is low, and if I intend to remain both safe and legal, it's entirely up to me to pull in the reigns. And I do.

The answer is it depends. Is it uncommon? No, it's common. But it really depends on the operator, the captain, and the nature of the copilot involved. I worked for one operator who wet-leased an airplane (and me with it) to another operator for several months. They had a new captain with helicopter time, but little fixed wing time, and very little turbojet time. I was to ride with him while he gained some experience. He was the new captain for that operator, a four airplane operation with one jet...ours. Nice guy, very detail oriented, very fastidigious about every single detail of flight. However, his boss made it clear that the new guy did all the flying, every bit of it. He ran it professionally,but I was there to fill a seat until he had more time for insurance, and that was it. After three months of babysitting an otherwise professional pilot, I couldn't take it any more...he certainly didn't need me there, and I was crawling out of my skin.

Don't be so fast to knock the CP or the operator. Many operators hire very inexperienced pilots and for the new guy, it's a big break. That the new guy doesn 't end up flying pax while he's learning isn't any great hardship...he gets to learn either way.

Not everything is an airline. Nor should it be.

hmmmm, I wonder what everyone thinks of you.

 

[Jeff775621]

I'm sorry you feel like a seat filler, but isn't that better than not being there at all, gaining both experience and jet time?
The truth is, with 1350TT, you're not going to get insured to be captain on a jet, and for now, if anything gets bent, no matter who is flying, it is the "paranoid " captain's tail on the insurance chopping block. You could end his career as easily as yours.

And for the guys bagging on the CP, he's next. In this circumstance it runs uphill.

I know what you mean, im just saying,he flies the airplane more single pilot than a two pilot crew and it drives me nuts.

 

[CaptainSpaz]

I know what you mean, im just saying,he flies the airplane more single pilot than a two pilot crew and it drives me nuts.

So leave him be to fly single pilot... find a new job. I hear the Regionals are hiring?