Copied from another forum. USAirways

[TWA Dude]

none. I'm definately not a smart man, but it seems like relative seniority for all pilots ON the list would probably be about as far as it could get.

Your version of relative seniority puts many furloughees senior to current AWA captains and staples the bottom several hundred AWA pilots. The result of that would be 100% stagnation for the AWA pilots until hundreds of USAir guys regain the seats they lost during their two bankuptcies. That's called a windfall at the other's expense.

You can't put 05 hires ahead of 89 hires and even come close to calling it fair.

What is "seniority"? Is it defined by how long you've been at a company or by how many pilots are senior/junior to you? One might say that a USAir '86 is very senior but unfortunately he wasn't senior enough to avoid being furloughed! You're looking at one piece of the equation (DOH) and ignoring the rest (how much seniority one has). In 2005 the most junior USAir pilot was a 1986 hire. How much seniority did he have? Zero, since every flying USAir pilot was senior to him. That's the seniority that Nicolau entitled him to keep in the integration.

I've you'd like to read Nicolau's decision yourself and have no other access feel free to PM me and I zap it to you. It's a 5MB, 76 page PDF.

 

[Green]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just don't get it, and maybe some East guy can explain this one to me:

Furloughed pilots are not even currently working for their airline. They are working elsewhere. This airline has a junior narrowbody reserve FO with a DOH in 1988. What would entitle this man to jump from being a junior narrowbody reserve FO to suddenly be a senior captain especially if their company has been acquired by another entity?

Is it fair that this FO has once been a captain, and due to misfortunes of their company now finds himself a reserve narrowbody FO again?

Now how do you merge a failing company with a bunch of guys on furlough with a healthy company that was hiring pilots?

No doubt that East guys got screwed for sure, but they got screwed by their management long before Doug Parker came knockin'. This arbitration award is a result of a piss poor pre-merger USAirways management, not the arbitrator.

Given the fact that the furloughs aren't currently employed by USAirways, you realistically can't integrate them above active pilots. It sucks that those furloughed pilots have 80's and 90's hire dates, but they rolled the dice with USAirways just how we all rolled the dice with our airlines. We'll never know if we made the right decision until retirement. They are the ones that got screwed... but once again... not by the arbitrator, or AWA, but by their own sh*tty management long before this merger came about.

well put....people who scream unfair aren't looking closely at the situation. You ask them if a furloughed pilot should be senior to the majority of AWA captains and they say of course not but then say DOH must be factored in. Can't have it both ways.

 

[AutoBus]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just don't get it, and maybe some East guy can explain this one to me:

Furloughed pilots are not even currently working for their airline. They are working elsewhere. This airline has a junior narrowbody reserve FO with a DOH in 1988. What would entitle this man to jump from being a junior narrowbody reserve FO to suddenly be a senior captain especially if their company has been acquired by another entity?

Is it fair that this FO has once been a captain, and due to misfortunes of their company now finds himself a reserve narrowbody FO again?

Now how do you merge a failing company with a bunch of guys on furlough with a healthy company that was hiring pilots?

No doubt that East guys got screwed for sure, but they got screwed by their management long before Doug Parker came knockin'. This arbitration award is a result of a piss poor pre-merger USAirways management, not the arbitrator.

Given the fact that the furloughs aren't currently employed by USAirways, you realistically can't integrate them above active pilots. It sucks that those furloughed pilots have 80's and 90's hire dates, but they rolled the dice with USAirways just how we all rolled the dice with our airlines. We'll never know if we made the right decision until retirement. They are the ones that got screwed... but once again... not by the arbitrator, or AWA, but by their own sh*tty management long before this merger came about.

The only reason this is an issue is that the orginal US Airways was such a screwed up company. I mean they went almost 10 years without hiring pilots. It sux have a 89 hire date and be at the bottom of the list, but the fact that you don't have any "mid senioirty guys" to smooth out integration speaks volumes for the condition of the company.

If you had guys hired in the 90's and 00's on the active AAA seniority list the integration would have turned out different, But you didn't!

 

[AutoBus]

Your version of relative seniority puts many furloughees senior to current AWA captains and staples the bottom several hundred AWA pilots. The result of that would be 100% stagnation for the AWA pilots until hundreds of USAir guys regain the seats they lost during their two bankuptcies. That's called a windfall at the other's expense.What is "seniority"? Is it defined by how long you've been at a company or by how many pilots are senior/junior to you? One might say that a USAir '86 is very senior but unfortunately he wasn't senior enough to avoid being furloughed! You're looking at one piece of the equation (DOH) and ignoring the rest (how much seniority one has). In 2005 the most junior USAir pilot was a 1986 hire. How much seniority did he have? Zero, since every flying USAir pilot was senior to him. F.

Very well said!

 

[The Victors]

Your version of relative seniority puts many furloughees senior to current AWA captains and staples the bottom several hundred AWA pilots. The result of that would be 100% stagnation for the AWA pilots until hundreds of USAir guys regain the seats they lost during their two bankuptcies. That's called a windfall at the other's expense.What is "seniority"? Is it defined by how long you've been at a company or by how many pilots are senior/junior to you? One might say that a USAir '86 is very senior but unfortunately he wasn't senior enough to avoid being furloughed! You're looking at one piece of the equation (DOH) and ignoring the rest (how much seniority one has). In 2005 the most junior USAir pilot was a 1986 hire. How much seniority did he have? Zero, since every flying USAir pilot was senior to him. That's the seniority that Nicolau entitled him to keep in the integration.

I've you'd like to read Nicolau's decision yourself and have no other access feel free to PM me and I zap it to you. It's a 5MB, 76 page PDF.

Thanks I have it. I'm not in on the fight anymore. You make a good arguement, but I just disagree about the staple job.

 

[Hpilot]

HP is the best 121 job, by far, that I have ever had. The best schedule, the best pay and by far the best people.

SHHHHHH! We're trying to deep that a secret. We don't want people like 737 Plt applying here.