#($&#(*&$@# Controllers

[temcgrew]

Asking the next controller to verify the fix would have cleared up the whole issue. It wouldn't matter who was in the wrong, the next controller might have sent you to another fix anyway.

 

[starshipdrvr]

Hey Sluming,

I think you may misunderstand the purpose of an ASAP compared to an ASRS form, also referred to as a NASA form. They are run by two entirely different entities. The ASAP program was designed primarily for the 121 world and is an agreement between the airline and the FAA for self-disclosure with the intent of identifying potential safety hazards. It also has the advantage of protecting the flight crew that participates in the program.

The NASA program on the other hand was a program designed by NASA to independantly audit the air traffic system and the FAA and also protect the pilots if they decide to self-disclose an incident.

Participation in the ASAP program does not preclude you from using the NASA program as well because it may help to identify safety issues to both the FAA and NASA.

I have to say, in my time of perusing the Flightinfo forums, I've seen a lot of really stupid discussions but this discussion on the use of the possesive "my" when referring to a fellow crew-member has to take the cake. In the past I have referred to "my captain", "my first officer", "my flight instructor", "my student" without any intent on being demeaning. How else would you describe the guy/gal that you are flying with for the day/trip/month? I'm not claiming any ownership over any of the above, it is a simple term of familiarity and identifying them as someone that I am flying with.

Respectfully, my $0.02

 

[temcgrew]

the copilot I was flying with. or the guy/gal.
I think "the" is better.

When I hear a f/o say "my captain" I feel it is worse.

 

[LegacyDriver]

If your ego is so fragile that you can't handle being called "my" anything (co-pilot, F/O, co-Captain, colleague...) Then you have big time self-esteem issues.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If your ego is so fragile that you can't handle being called "my" anything (co-pilot, F/O, co-Captain, colleague...) Then you have big time self-esteem issues.

Skull One...."MY BITCH"..

 

[LegacyDriver]

Skull One...."MY BITCH"..

Yours...bullets first..."Bitch."

(I ain't yo' bitch, beeyatch. You don't sit in my cockpit.) Crap I did it again...I said, "My." WOOPS. LOL

 

[81Horse]

" ...He told us the direction and DME to the fix even if he called it by the wrong name ..."

This wouldn't be enough to convince me he was looking at the right airplane.

Either the controller repeatedly misspoke the name of the fix (and you should have clarified the phonetic identifier), or the controller had you confused with another aircraft (and you should have verified aircraft position, altitude, and callsign).

The controller was a jerk, but you and your copilot didn't hold his feet to the fire, and make him clarify for the recorders. As a previous poster said, the controller probably elected not to revisit the subject when, or if, he realized his error. Obviously, he was busy and grumpy. Still, I would file an ASRS report, myself.

Now, about my copilot: I think the impersonal article "the" sucks. This is not how one speaks of friends, family, colleagues, teammates. First officers who find the expression "my copilot" offensive should consider the real meaning of the prefix co. To call your flying partner "the captain," or "the copilot," is to put a long arm's length between you. Frankly, it's just weird to imagine calling someone with whom you are on a first-name basis "the" anything.

And let's be clear: when you're the pilot-in-command, the proprietary my becomes a habit of speech -- an expression of responsibility. My airplane, my crew, my passengers, my responsibility, my ass if something goes wrong. First officers who plan to be captains some day should focus on this, instead of on semantics.

 

[DougTriMtrDrvr]

I'd do the ASRS report.

How about "My Associate", that's how other professions refer to one another and the business world seems to function reasonably well with the phrase as well.

 

[FracCapt]

Its bad, annoys most pilots I know...

Its like "My Bitch".

You seemed to like it when I introduced you as my bitch...

 

[pilotpat]

I think this whole "My (insert choice)" all depends on the situation. Maybe if introducing one before flight to the pax, how about "And this is ___, your captain/co-pilot today." Notice, now the introduction gives the pax ownership...obviously this is probably more 91/135 crap. Now, if you're out for a beer and you're introduced to buddies of the captain (this happened to me a couple years ago) as "My co-pilot", then I think that's a bit overboard. This particular guy used to introduce himself as Captain ___ to everyone: FBO girls, line 'persons', and yes...even Flight Service when he'd call for his brief. It used to make me laugh pretty good, though. Understand from my end, as I've been an FO for 3 years, that even though the PIC is signing for the airplane and all, I have a huge personal stake in the safety and timelieness of the flight, as well as making a positive impression for the repeat customers.

Oh, yeah - regarding the original post - I think this exact same thing happened while I was going to MDW from HPN or somewhere close by. The guy meant PSB and kept saying SBJ. We went back and forth for a couple sec's until I said...you do mean PSB right?? He paused a sec and came back with "Yeah, that's it sorry." No big deal, but it does happen a lot. Again, as with everything there's no need to be an instant a-hole when people make simple mistakes.

 

[81Horse]

"... I have a huge personal stake in the safety and timelieness of the flight ..."

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply otherwise in my post above.

"... This particular guy used to introduce himself as Captain ..."

Sounds more like a Rear Admiral to me.

 

[earhart]

All semantics- I am a woman. And a captain.

Oh, and I like to be referred to as 'your highness' or 'high priestess.'

Simple.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

All semantics- I am a woman. And a captain.

Oh, and I like to be referred to as 'your highness' or 'high priestess.'

Simple.

"Jane Wayne" does not work?

 

[earhart]

"Jane Wayne" does not work?

I like it.

 

[mobie]

You could always go by "your airworthiness" or "your airwomenship".

 

[earhart]

You could always go by "your airworthiness" or "your airwomenship".

Those are very big words for my copilot. But such a nice boy.

 

[some_dude]

I don't think an ASRS report can be used against you. If what you reported was an intentional violation, then filing the ASRS report won't protect you, but it shouldn't hurt you either.

As for "my copilot" I tend to use "the other guy." A pilot I used to fly with years ago shortened that to "TOG" which didn't make the guys he flew with very happy.

 

[Canucit]

so what co-pilot co-captain same (S### different A##) I dont think calling your copilot something hes not and when he makes captain I will call him co captain
oh and I do agree you should fill out a asrs form and call the center chief

 

[Gulfstream 200]

so what co-pilot co-captain same (S### different A##) I dont think calling your copilot something hes not and when he makes captain I will call him co captain
oh and I do agree you should fill out a asrs form and call the center chief

whatchu say willis?

 

[LegacyDriver]

so what co-pilot co-captain same (S### different A##) I dont think calling your copilot something hes not and when he makes captain I will call him co captain
oh and I do agree you should fill out a asrs form and call the center chief

Well if the guy *IS* a Captain in his own right I think he deserves the respect accorded by the title and position. If he is a Captain then he is a Captain. It's all semantics I guess. If I say, "Here is my Captain" then that makes me an F/O. If I say, "Here is my co-pilot," I am not sure if that makes him an equal or a subordinate. So "co-Captain" is probably the best thing to say.

Gawd how did this thread get so far afield?