#($&#(*&$@# Controllers

[LegacyDriver]

Yeah I'm at a loss as to an alternative. The dictionary defines it as polite. Guess I missed the memo on this....

Must be a "Corporate Thing" cuz nobody at the airline ever gave a hoot. Nobody I fly with cares either.

For the record I will continue to use it (until someone comes up with some politically correct way of introducing a fellow pilot) but it is not meant to sound derogatory or condescending in any way.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Was this you?

27-Dec-2005 E135/Q Westchester Co [KHPN] Fort Lauderdale Executive [KFXE] 05:38PM EST 08:06PM EST2:28

No I was going out west. Trying to think what time it was. It was earlier than that for sure.

 

[2000flyer]

I am a pilot. I am qualified in the right seat as well as the left. I fly with other pilots. My boss is Chief Pilot but prefers just pilot. My Director of Maintenance is a mechanic as well as a pilot. My business card says "Pilot." I don't get off being called Captain. I don't condiscend by calling the other pilot "copilot."

We have a few that like titles. I might be the "Captain of Record" for planning and filing an international trip, yet I'll always be "his" copilot. Some have a string of acronyms on their business cards. Does John Doe executive care if I have an ATP or an SES rating? Does John Doe executive even look? If he saw them, would he have a clue what they meant?

Years ago the airlines followed the military in "assigning" chains of command. Remember when the Captain was King and his decision shall not be questioned? Ahh...many of you are to young to remember....LUCKY YOU! In todays aviation world, it's more like a chain of responsibility.

A bush pilot in Alaska once said "you'll know they're not a real bush pilot when they walk around with a hat and t-shirt that says "BUSH PILOT!"

2000Flyer

 

[LegacyDriver]

So, what's the most professional/polite way to say it? ... "my crew member" ?

I know a guy who, when talk to most people, will always refer to what he flies as "my airplane." ... *SLAP!*

Apparently the whole objective of this is to do away with the term "my".

So I guess I won't say, "my airplane" when confirming control swaps. I'll have to say, "I have the flight controls" or something like that.

Honestly I have never heard of anyone getting bent out of shape over "my". I think some folks have too much time on their hands to get worked up over something so insignificant. If you are respectful to the other pilot I don't think "my" or "your" makes much difference.

I guess if I went around calling all my fellow (oops I did it again) Captains, "my Captain," I would get accused of being insecure, lacking self-confidence, etc. etc. or something.

I'll just stick with "my" for now cuz I don't know how else to tell the story without saying it that way. ("Well the other pilot I was flying with..." or "The other Captain I was flying with..." That sounds kinda' stupid... )

 

[Rabble]

You could always take a lesson from the way your copilots most likely talk about you when they get home to their wives.

"You wouldn't believe this douchebag I was flying with"

 

[LegacyDriver]

You could always take a lesson from the way your copilots most likely talk about you when they get home to their wives.

"You wouldn't believe this douchebag I was flying with"

LOL!!

I can't believe you KNOW that! I was hoping to keep that a secret.

 

[That Guy]

Twelve O'Clock and Eighty Miles was PSB (PHILLIPSBURG) not Solberg. So we just said, "Roger," and went to PSB.

That's spelled Philipsburg, with one 'L'. The locals pronounce it 'Philisburg' - and don't ask me how I know all this.

Why do central Pennsylvanians say, "Floor needs swept," call a vaccuum a "sweeper," and have a general dislike for conjunctions?

Back to your regularly scheduled controller berating...

TG

 

[LegacyDriver]

That's spelled Philipsburg, with one 'L'. The locals pronounce it 'Philisburg' - and don't ask me how I know all this.

Why do central Pennsylvanians say, "Floor needs swept," call a vaccuum a "sweeper," and have a general dislike for conjunctions?

Back to your regularly scheduled controller berating...

TG

And either spelling apparently sounds a *LOT* like SOLBERG.

 

[Lead Sled]

That's spelled Philipsburg, with one 'L'. The locals pronounce it 'Philisburg' - and don't ask me how I know all this.

Why do central Pennsylvanians say, "Floor needs swept," call a vaccuum a "sweeper," and have a general dislike for conjunctions?

Back to your regularly scheduled controller berating...

Good, now that we have resolved this crisis how about tackling the infamous "Cleared direct Charlie West as filed..."

As far as the "My copilot" thing goes, might I suggest "The guy I fly with"?

Hells bells guys.

'Sled

 

[dhc8fo]

Just curious. Why did you use the phrase "MY copilot"?

Do you own the copilot? Does he belong to you?

Are you his boss (where the phrase "MY employee" would be appropriate)?

Or does he simply report to you where the phrase "my subordinate" would be more appropriate?

More importantly is that the kind of cockpit you run? Master and apprentice? Do you let him touch the radar?

:uzi:

 

[sluminginpit]

Wow! Certain pilots need to relax. The attitude that is starting to become standard is that the FO is equal to the CA. You were in New York, anything goes. Your attitude about showing up the controller is unprofesional to say the least. Lead by example.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Showing up the controller???? WTF are you smoking?

If I were trying to show him up I wouldn't have dropped it.

I was attempting to politely get clarification to avoid a violation. He's the one who was unprofessional.

You need to chill out pal. Hopefully next time I will handle it better but I was polite and calm throughout. Remember, his reply to my justified query for clarification was insulting and/or rude at best. If I had responded in kind feel free to call me unprofessional, otherwise you are way off base.

I am the one at risk of a violation, not the controller...

And as for crew interactions, since when did the use of "my" mean you were an arrogant prick who considers your fellow pilot a serf??? W T F is that about?

I am soliciting input on a very odd situation. Thanks to my friends here I will fill out an ASRS Report to cover my arse. I'm not here to show up anyone. I think you are just overly critical.

 

[sluminginpit]

I get paid by the hour and spend most of my time in NY,PHL,DCA airspace, if they want me to do a 360 six times I will. Be careful how you write the ASAP, if you knowingly violated a reg i.e. going to a fix not cleared, the report will not be accepted, and you open yourself up to a violation that may not be needed. Think hard about the way the controller responded, if you actually went to a fix and he said nothing I might reconsider the asap. The controller can be violated just like you, in NY airspace you don't get away with much, especially going to the wrong fix. Most likely he relized his mistake and never apologized about it. Write the report wisely, you don't want to open a can of worms that wasnt needed. I myself would do nothing, I don't think the asap is needed, however only you can make that decision. Good luck.

 

[captkramer]

Always file the ASRS. The whole point of the reporting process is to identify problems exactly like this.
If anyone needs it in the future the NY Tracon number is: 1-800-645-3206. Make sure you call them about 4-5 PM on a Friday.

 

[smellthejeta]

I get paid by the hour and spend most of my time in NY,PHL,DCA airspace, if they want me to do a 360 six times I will. Be careful how you write the ASAP, if you knowingly violated a reg i.e. going to a fix not cleared, the report will not be accepted, and you open yourself up to a violation that may not be needed. Think hard about the way the controller responded, if you actually went to a fix and he said nothing I might reconsider the asap. The controller can be violated just like you, in NY airspace you don't get away with much, especially going to the wrong fix. Most likely he relized his mistake and never apologized about it. Write the report wisely, you don't want to open a can of worms that wasnt needed. I myself would do nothing, I don't think the asap is needed, however only you can make that decision. Good luck.

What do you mean "the report will not be accepted"? Contrary to popular belief, the whole point of the ASRS program is to provide a confidential way of communicating safety issues. What the OP described was a safety issue worth communicating. One benefit that arises from the filing of an ASRS report is that the FAA cannot take any disciplinary action against you for filing such report. The ASRS report may even prevent some disciplinary action against the report filer. The circumstances under which the report may be used to avoid FAA certificate action are limited, and that might be to what you are referring, but to my knowledge, they will always ACCEPT the report.

 

[Wankel7]

I would have asked for HIS phone number.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Well now the question is, "To file or not to file? To call ATC or not to call?" Not into getting anyone in trouble but definitely want to CMA.

How to phrase? Man. He told us the direction and DME to the fix even if he called it by the wrong name so... Let sleeping dogs lie?

 

[smellthejeta]

Well now the question is, "To file or not to file? To call ATC or not to call?" Not into getting anyone in trouble but definitely want to CMA.

How to phrase? Man. He told us the direction and DME to the fix even if he called it by the wrong name so... Let sleeping dogs lie?

Why is the filing of an ASRS report even a question? Pilots think the damn thing is used to protect their asses (it can) but it has other more primary purposes. Despite what one esteemed poster above wrote, I don't ever see how the report filing could harm you. Admitting to criminal acts is never a good idea, but since you didn't do anything criminal, you have nothing to worry about.

Call ATC? Call the facility QA guys and run it by them and see what they have to say. Call FSS, they'll have the phone number on file. When they pick up, just as to speak to "QA". If FSS doesn't have the phone number (say you live in FL or whatever) FSS can get you the number for the regional office, and the regional office will get you the number for the facility.

As you suggested above, there are ways to handle the situation without getting anybody into trouble. His attitude was unacceptable, despite the fact it is NY.

 

[sluminginpit]

Is the ASRS report the same as the NASA? The airline I fly for participates in ASAP reporting, we don't use this ASRS. The ASAP follows certain requirements that need to be followed to be accepted. One being filled within 24 hrs of the incident. ASAP's can be turned down and not accepted by the feds. Each one is reviewed in person with the feds and the safety board from ALPA. If the fed's feel the violation was done due to blatant error (i.e. flying to fix not cleared to) they will proceed with certificate action

The situation that Legacydriver has is a tough one. I strongly belive the controller possiblly was confused (which they will never admit to). If the ASRS is indeed non jepordy and you feel the need to fill one out, only you can decide, it's you career. However human error is still a factor in flying and controlling. No safety can be increased, what you risk is drawing attention to yourself, and the controller. Trust me, in NY center if you screwed up you would know! They would have given you the number to call.

 

[sluminginpit]

One other quick note. Remebers guys that if the ASRS report is like the NASA report, it will not portect you if indeed you commited a violation knowly. If Leagcydriver states that he flew to the wrong fix without the controller clearing him they won't care, he will get violated. The confusion was never resolved Legacydriver states he went to the other fix because that's what he tought the controller meant. If the report is needed then he went to the wrong fix, right? There is your violation, admitted to by the pilot in writing.