#($&#(*&$@# Controllers

[Diesel]

i say my "partner". At some bars it can get you a free drink or get you a bloody nose.

In all honesty i say my partner because i consider it a team event. If we don't work together the job will be twice as hard and one of us will be working hard while the other is not.

Plus you see me preocupied with something just jump in. You aren't going to hurt my feelings.

 

[G4G5]

Very simply ask the controller for a time check.

He now realizes that you have the intension of calling a supervisor and asking for the tapes to be pulled. After the time check ask for his initials.

They tend to straighten up and stop with the wise as attitude very quickly.

Just one caveat, he will be looking to cover his as, so if you did something wrong, don't try this.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Easy there, Buck Rogers. Did you perhaps think to ask him to give you the identifier of where he wanted you to go? That would have pretty much solved it. If he MEANT SBJ, and you went to PSB, you could be under investigation in the near future.

Did you think to get a time check and controller initials on the air, and then a phone number to contact the supervisor?

That's why I queried him about DJB (SBJ, DJB -- I thought he was maybe being dyslexic after staring at a radar screen all day). When he said, "Twelve o'clock and eighty miles" I realized he was talking about PSB and just did it because that was the only fix that was 12 and 80 from us (and also the only one on our flight plan that ended in "burg").

If you knew you were supposed to go to Phillipsburg, why not make your first reply "Sir, confirm direct Papa Sierra Bravo"...he would have likely gotten it and said "uhh...affirmative"

they get busy, show you are a professional by helping them out. clear the confusion, get an agreement on tape and move on quick...It shows class and that you are a professional. (and everyone knows Im all about class..) plus, we all know who wins a pi$$ing contest.

Again, I didn't know I was "supposed to go to" Phillipsburg--I thought he was talking about DJB and just got himself confused. I queried him on that and got an arse chewing. I was doing my dead level best to be calm and polite and he was just yelling at me like I was a third grader, stepping on my transmissions, and ignoring what I was trying to tell him. Talk about professional. Man...that guy was definitely having a bad day. I don't know how much more clear we could have been telling him SOLBERG was behind us. He should have realized that. He obviously thinks PSB is "Solberg".

I don't think he was very busy. I don't think he was on split freqs and the only other plane on the radio he was talking to with any regularity was a CHQ flight...

Didn't think to get a time check. I tend to defer to controllers rather than have them hold a grudge later and nail me for something out of spite.

Darn. I guess I'll break out that ASRS form.

Very simply ask the controller for a time check.

He now realizes that you have the intension of calling a supervisor and asking for the tapes to be pulled. After the time check ask for his initials.

They tend to straighten up and stop with the wise as attitude very quickly.

Just one caveat, he will be looking to cover his as, so if you did something wrong, don't try this.

I'll definitely remember this next time.

Thanks for that.

 

[LegacyDriver]

and yes, the "My CoPilot" thing. Anytime someone introduces or talks about another crewmember as "My Copilot" I just want to smack the self important aviation dork $hit right out of them.

nothing worse.

Never bothered me in the slightest.

"My friend..."

"My co-worker..."

"My co-pilot..."

"My co-Captain..."

I can't imagine why anyone would get bent about that.


my
Used preceding various forms of polite, affectionate, or familiar address: My friend, you are so right.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Was this N90 or ZNY you were talking to? I guess it doesn't make a difference, but I'd call the facility as well and as to talk to their QA people and voice your concerns. Especially when it came clear to you that what the controller intended you to do was not what he instructed, he should have cut the 'tude. Yes, it is NY, but attitudes like his do nothing to foster a cooperative (and safe, for that matter) relationship between ATC and pilots.

All I recall is "New York Center" at the time. I'm trying to think who he handed us off to...

I guess it doesn't matter. I shouldn't have been so deferent perhaps. I was going to say, "Give me the identifier" and if he had stated PSB I coulda' called him on it, but "the guy in the seat next to me" suggested I just let it go. I considered that sage advice and did. Still makes me mad cuz he made me look like some uneducated yahoo. I do enough of that when I *AM* wrong as it is, I certainly don't need any more help.

 

[HawkerF/O]

OFF TOPIC:

Just curious. Why did you use the phrase "MY copilot"?

Do you own the copilot? Does he belong to you?

Are you his boss (where the phrase "MY employee" would be appropriate)?

Or does he simply report to you where the phrase "my subordinate" would be more appropriate?

More importantly is that the kind of cockpit you run? Master and apprentice? Do you let him touch the radar?

I'm not attacking you personally, but this phrase has bothered me lately. The implication is that in the cockpit we are not a team but rather that I am there to learn from you until one day I might finally graduate to your seat.

In the flight you described this was obviously not the case. The F/O had vastly more experience than you did.

These are only words, you might think. You might be right. Perhaps i'm the only one who cringes when a Captain introduces me as HIS.

I'd rather be introduced as THE first-officer or HIS co-worker.

Just whining. Ok back to your topic. ATC sucks.... yadda yadda.

Bender is correct here, though I think what he was trying to say came across the wrong way.
1st of all, there are drastic differences in a professional setting (My Co-Pilot) and a social setting (My Girlfriend).
I have seen Legacy's posts, not only here, but other posts as well, and I do not think he is the kind of guy Bender is referring to. I have seen more times than not, Captain's saying MY Copilot, MY, MY, MY. From time to time, it is OK, but to be referred to in the possessive in a professional environment is unprofessional. There are those captains that do that ALL THE TIME no matter what they are talking about. In my experiences, it has been ego driven. The ones that are ALWAYS saying My-Copilot are the ones that want you to know that they are the captain and in charge. Who cares? Most dont. I have heard the same pilots talk about the co-pilots wanting "Their Seat" (the left seat). I didn't know the captain owned the seat, and furthermore, of course they want that seat. Who aspires to sit in the right seat their whole career?
Finally, I have also noticed those that ALWAYS say "My Seat/My Co-Pilot" are the ones that make all the decisions as if they were flying single pilot, then when the screw something up, it's now, "WE". NO, NO, NO. It's been you, you, you excluding the other pilot the whole time and now all of the sudden something is not on the up and up with the PAX or the Company, and now it's "We deceided". Homey don't play that. I don't think so.
Please keep in mind, I am not saying all the Capts are like this, but the ones that are always talking about the other pilot as if they own them are the pilots I am speaking about.
Another thing the bugs me is I used to work with a guy who was a GREAT pilot, but the kind of guy you didn't want to be around for more than an hour a month. I learned a lot from him by figuring things out on my own(he had an ego and hated for anyone else to get the same training he had), but everytime this guy met someone that was in aviation, he would list all the type ratings he had. Like anyone cares. It would be embarrassing to see a buddy in an FBO and I would be obligated to introduce him to my buddy (BTW, I NEVER referred to him as my Captain), and I would want to hide cause 30 seconds after I made the intro, he'd be listing his types. My buddy would call later that night and be like WTF? Who was that and why did he tell me all of his types? The best was when he once chatted up a guy in jeans at an FBO in Ypsilanti, MI. He started listing his types to this guy, and the guy in jeans was like, "Oh, so you are just getting started in aviation? What have you been doing all these years before you were a pilot?" Turns out the guy started listing his types, and after his tour in the 89th flying AF1 was over, he went on to fly some real heavy corporate iron. Just shut this guy up, and the guy I was flying with got P#ssed off on the way home complaining about what a jerk the AF1 guy was. The guy was real cool, so I guess the only reason he theough he was a jerk is because he had more experience and rating than the guy I was flying with. The ride home was conducted mostly in silence.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Never bothered me in the slightest.

"My friend..."

"My co-worker..."

"My co-pilot..."

"My co-Captain..."

I can't imagine why anyone would get bent about that.


my
Used preceding various forms of polite, affectionate, or familiar address: My friend, you are so right.

Its bad, annoys most pilots I know...

Its like "My Bitch".

In general, most people who frequently use this have the most problems in the cockpit...and socially. They do dinners alone after night ONE on the road. I work/have worked with a few "My copilots"...and they are in general...tools.

just an observation.


I know, way off topic here...you may have not meant it that way in the original post.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"... I need to call MY dispatcher"
"... Is MY wingtip going to clear?"
"... He gave ME a late turn and we overshot the localizer"

We've all heard examples such as these.

 

[Groundpounder]

Was this you?

27-Dec-2005 E135/Q Westchester Co [KHPN] Fort Lauderdale Executive [KFXE] 05:38PM EST 08:06PM EST 2:28

 

[GulfstreamSDL]

So, what's the most professional/polite way to say it? ... "my crew member" ?

I know a guy who, when talking to most people, will always refer to what he flies as "my airplane." ... *SLAP!*