#($&#(*&$@# Controllers

[LegacyDriver]

I was flying on J60 out of KHPN yesterday and got into a pi$$ing contest with a controller.

We were between ETX and PSB on J60 (DJB was up the road).

He cleared us "direct to Solberg" (which is SBJ).

I looked at the routing and said, "WTF?" SBJ was 60 miles BEHIND us and not on J60.

"Sir, Solberg is not on our route. Do you mean Dryer (DJB) perhaps?" I asked him.

"THIS IS NOT A DEBATE!!!!" he railed. "Cleared direct SOLBERG, J60 on course."

I tried as tactfully as possible to explain the controller was f'ed up but to no avail. My co-pilot is a retired USAirways Captain and he had just about had enough so he jumped in and said, "If we are to go to Solberg we are going to have to do a 180 degree turn. Surely you can do better than that."

"SOLBERG is at your twelve o'clock and 80 miles!" the controller demanded. "East TEXAS is behind you."

Twelve O'Clock and Eighty Miles was PSB (PHILLIPSBURG) not Solberg. So we just said, "Roger," and went to PSB.

What a jacka$$. Embarassing us in front of all the pilots on the radio. The d*ck didn't even say, "Good day" when we signed off. Class-less a-hole...

 

[BenderGonzales]

OFF TOPIC:

Just curious. Why did you use the phrase "MY copilot"?

Do you own the copilot? Does he belong to you?

Are you his boss (where the phrase "MY employee" would be appropriate)?

Or does he simply report to you where the phrase "my subordinate" would be more appropriate?

More importantly is that the kind of cockpit you run? Master and apprentice? Do you let him touch the radar?

I'm not attacking you personally, but this phrase has bothered me lately. The implication is that in the cockpit we are not a team but rather that I am there to learn from you until one day I might finally graduate to your seat.

In the flight you described this was obviously not the case. The F/O had vastly more experience than you did.

These are only words, you might think. You might be right. Perhaps i'm the only one who cringes when a Captain introduces me as HIS.

I'd rather be introduced as THE first-officer or HIS co-worker.

Just whining. Ok back to your topic. ATC sucks.... yadda yadda.

 

[LegacyDriver]

My philosophy is the guy who is the flying pilot runs the show. Unless he's going to get me killed or violated he does whatever he wants. I am their to support him/her in whatever way I can. I expect the same in return and consider that a reasonable approach.

As for ownership...hey, I'm *HIS* Co-Pilot also. *shrug* Would you rather I call him, "The FIRST OFFICER" or is it better to treat him as an equal?

LOL.

Do you cringe when people introduce you as, "My friend" ????

This is an interesting philosphical debate, but.... To call him "the co-pilot" would be less-than-clear. "Which co-pilot? There are MILLIONS of co-pilots. You can't claim that he is *THE* co-pilot. He is merely *A* co-pilot."

LOL.

 

[XLDaddy]

easy bro, I think his use of "My" whatever is just a fugure speech. I wasn't feeling any negativity from it.

 

[Flying Illini]

I've said "my captain" before...I certainly don't own him (but I do answer to him), nor does he own me, but for today, I am his first officer and he is my captain.
I also say "this is my wife" and anyone who has a wife/gf knows that the men do not own or control their women.

 

[2000flyer]

Back to topic...you might consider an ASRS report on this one. If, for whatever reason possible, he indeed meant SBJ and you disregarded his clearance, you're quite possibly on the fast track with the feds. I, probably like you, doubt it, but CYA none-the-less. Besides, you're circumstances will be reviewed as well as the controller.

I have been turned 140° from course for 80 miles before. I too questioned it, but had a friendly ATC'er explain the reason to me rather than be an ass.

2000Flyer

 

[FracCapt]

What a jacka$$. Embarassing us in front of all the pilots on the radio. The d*ck didn't even say, "Good day" when we signed off. Class-less a-hole...

Easy there, Buck Rogers. Did you perhaps think to ask him to give you the identifier of where he wanted you to go? That would have pretty much solved it. If he MEANT SBJ, and you went to PSB, you could be under investigation in the near future.

Did you think to get a time check and controller initials on the air, and then a phone number to contact the supervisor?

 

[smellthejeta]

Was this N90 or ZNY you were talking to? I guess it doesn't make a difference, but I'd call the facility as well and as to talk to their QA people and voice your concerns. Especially when it came clear to you that what the controller intended you to do was not what he instructed, he should have cut the 'tude. Yes, it is NY, but attitudes like his do nothing to foster a cooperative (and safe, for that matter) relationship between ATC and pilots.

FWIW, I was a VFR trying to land DCA back before 9/11. I was coming around from the north east of P56 pretty low, called the tracon and stated my intentions. We played 20 questions and he tells me to contact TWR on xxx.xx. Well, that freq happened to be IAD and I knew it. But I also figured I was wasting my time, called IAD, and told him that I was given his number from DCA. He was pretty much like whatever dude and gave me back to the first guy. I managed to get in, but the rules are the rules, and there was absolutely no way I was going to enter his airspace without the appropriate clearance. From a pilot's perspective, when you get a clueless dick from a controller, I actually have no idea how to handle them. I guess you can ask to speak to a supervisor on the freq? I have no idea how that will go over.

 

[Lead Sled]

I was flying on J60 out of KHPN yesterday and got into a pi$$ing contest with a controller.

We were between ETX and PSB on J60 (DJB was up the road).

He cleared us "direct to Solberg" (which is SBJ).

I looked at the routing and said, "WTF?" SBJ was 60 miles BEHIND us and not on J60.

"Sir, Solberg is not on our route. Do you mean Dryer (DJB) perhaps?" I asked him.

"THIS IS NOT A DEBATE!!!!" he railed. "Cleared direct SOLBERG, J60 on course."

I tried as tactfully as possible to explain the controller was f'ed up but to no avail. My co-pilot is a retired USAirways Captain and he had just about had enough so he jumped in and said, "If we are to go to Solberg we are going to have to do a 180 degree turn. Surely you can do better than that."

"SOLBERG is at your twelve o'clock and 80 miles!" the controller demanded. "East TEXAS is behind you."

Twelve O'Clock and Eighty Miles was PSB (PHILLIPSBURG) not Solberg. So we just said, "Roger," and went to PSB.

What a jacka$$. Embarassing us in front of all the pilots on the radio. The d*ck didn't even say, "Good day" when we signed off. Class-less a-hole...

I'd just file an ASRS report and chalk it up to a bad day for the controller. I've spent more than my fair share of time in that airspace and those guys, overall, do a good job.

'Sled

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I was flying on J60 out of KHPN yesterday and got into a pi$$ing contest with a controller.

We were between ETX and PSB on J60 (DJB was up the road).

He cleared us "direct to Solberg" (which is SBJ).

I looked at the routing and said, "WTF?" SBJ was 60 miles BEHIND us and not on J60.

"Sir, Solberg is not on our route. Do you mean Dryer (DJB) perhaps?" I asked him.

"THIS IS NOT A DEBATE!!!!" he railed. "Cleared direct SOLBERG, J60 on course."

I tried as tactfully as possible to explain the controller was f'ed up but to no avail. My co-pilot is a retired USAirways Captain and he had just about had enough so he jumped in and said, "If we are to go to Solberg we are going to have to do a 180 degree turn. Surely you can do better than that."

"SOLBERG is at your twelve o'clock and 80 miles!" the controller demanded. "East TEXAS is behind you."

Twelve O'Clock and Eighty Miles was PSB (PHILLIPSBURG) not Solberg. So we just said, "Roger," and went to PSB.

What a jacka$$. Embarassing us in front of all the pilots on the radio. The d*ck didn't even say, "Good day" when we signed off. Class-less a-hole...

If you knew you were supposed to go to Phillipsburg, why not make your first reply "Sir, confirm direct Papa Sierra Bravo"...he would have likely gotten it and said "uhh...affirmative"

they get busy, show you are a professional by helping them out. clear the confusion, get an agreement on tape and move on quick...It shows class and that you are a professional. (and everyone knows Im all about class..) plus, we all know who wins a pi$$ing contest.




and yes, the "My CoPilot" thing. Anytime someone introduces or talks about another crewmember as "My Copilot" I just want to smack the self important aviation dork $hit right out of them.

nothing worse.