Contract Dispatching

[SierraPapa356]

as to the above post, I was Referring to the Politicians of course..

The ADF has put out its statement on this matter..

FAA decides to add "Contract Dispatching" to its earlier published 2009 NPRM while they claimed back in 2008 they were not interested:
On January 12, 2009, the FAA issued and published a noticed of proposed rulemaking on training qualifications, service, and use of crew members and aircraft dispatchers which ADF responded to 2009_NPRM_Response.pdf.
Now the FAA is attempting to push through "Contract Dispatching" as part of its newly published SNPRM with just 60 days to respond!
"Considering Contract Dispatching was not part of the original NPRM in 2009 and FAA also wrote a letter to us the stating they were not pursuing this in 2008, FAA_Response_to_ADF.pdf why such a urgency to add this?" Joseph Miceli, President of the ADF asked.
ADF has concerns with the FAA's urgent need to outsource FAR 121 dispatchers to the lowest bidder as part of it's latest published SNPRM putting America's flying public and world wide travelers at risk.
"Aircraft Dispatching is not like getting a bid to have your aircraft overhauled outside US soil" states Joe Miceli, "and you think the FAA would have learned from all those third party maintenance fines it has recently handed out". "Contract Dispatching can only compromising Safety, Operational Control, and Mutual Trust between the Captain and his/her FAR 121 Licensed Dispatcher and should NEVER be allowed as an option with this SNPRM".
ADF urgently suggests that ALL FAR 121 licensed Aircraft Dispatchers, members and union leadership respond to this SNPRM with factual informational and also write or contact you local elected state official on why this issue should not be allowed to continue!
ADF will send it's official comment to the FAA's SNPRM issued and reach out to the Congressional Aviation Sub-Committee insuring all parties are aware of this surprise addition to the original 2009 NPRM.
Members of ADF please know that your leadership and its board members are committed to having YOUR VOICE HEARD! ADF and it's membership pride itself on the highest single level of safety and continue to fight this and other attempts to lower the level of safety to the lowest bidder!
Sincerely,
Joseph J Miceli
President-Airline Dispatchers Federation

Hope they are successful in stopping this addition to the rule..

I am glad the ADF put out the 1st word on this I and am glad to be a dues paying member. I know others will follow that I need not mention here. What ever your personal feeling we all need to get everyone we know to send in comments to stop this rule. If allowed your career as you know it will be over in less than ten years. I hope that we have a labor friendly President that would not allow such a bill to be passed, if so vote him out! If 1/4 of the Dispatchers employed by US carriers were out during a shift the public would become very aware of the role the Dispatcher plays in safety of flight. Just saying......

 

[homerjdispatch]

Wrote my Senators and congressman... How do I comment on this?

 

[SierraPapa356]

http://www.regulations.gov/#!searchResults;cp=O;rpp=10;po=0;s=aircraft+dispatchers

try this link

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

Boycott Jepps...use Lido?!

 

[propsarebest]

Once you get used to it, LIDO is ONE MILLION times better than Jepp...

 

[Kohflot]

There's an important thing to remember here. This isn't about Jeppesen. They're a good company, and we can hardly blame them for seeking more business.

Some other company would be in support of this if Jepp wasn't.

 

[SKC]

Once you get used to it, LIDO is ONE MILLION times better than Jepp...

Which Jepp program are you comparing? You ought to see Dispatch Control. Quite a bit better than Ops Control if that's what you're using.

 

[propsarebest]

I meant their charts/plates. And LIDO is less than 1/3 the cost too.

 

[airbrush]

Jeppesen

Since there is at least a chance that this could be the future of our profession, is there anyone here who has experience working for Jeppesen or knows someone who does? It would be interesting to get a sense of how they threat their people, especially pay scales (since this is a cost-cutting measure after all), and whtever else they can share.

 

[Kohflot]

It would be interesting to get a sense of how they threat their people, especially pay scales (since this is a cost-cutting measure after all), and whatever else they can share.

I don't work for them, but know folks that do.

They pay well.
They have a nice HQ with a cafeteria and all (we have a few wheels of death).
At present, their dispatchers work part-time from home.

 

[MaceyHold]

Jepp treats it's people very well. All of their dispatchers are ex-121, and have, on average, 12-15 years experience. Some are retired 121 from the majors, several were hired when their local airline was bought by a regional, and others just left their 121 carrier for something different. Previous experience varies from line dispatcher to SOC Duty Manager to SOC Director. There is a wide swath of different backgrounds in the group.

Starting pay is very good. Dispatchers work for it though. A 10-hour shift doesn't have much down time. There are a handful of customers, but they fly all over the world. They each have their own rules and policies, so you have to stay sharp. A lot of the dispatcher's time is devoted to planning trips weeks in advance, then dispatching them on the day of flight.

Overall, a happy group of employees, with very good experience.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Jepp treats it's people very well. All of their dispatchers are ex-121, and have, on average, 12-15 years experience. Some are retired 121 from the majors, several were hired when their local airline was bought by a regional, and others just left their 121 carrier for something different. Previous experience varies from line dispatcher to SOC Duty Manager to SOC Director. There is a wide swath of different backgrounds in the group.

Starting pay is very good. Dispatchers work for it though. A 10-hour shift doesn't have much down time. There are a handful of customers, but they fly all over the world. They each have their own rules and policies, so you have to stay sharp. A lot of the dispatcher's time is devoted to planning trips weeks in advance, then dispatching them on the day of flight.

Overall, a happy group of employees, with very good experience.

of course, if they are bidding to take away from majors, that all goes downhill real fast!

 

[Pull To Guns]

Starting pay is very good.

"Very good" means different things to different folks. Actual numbers would be much more helpful if you know them.

I have noticed that between us dispatchers, we are reluctant to discuss exactly what we are paid. I don't know why that is. It would seem if we shared this info, it would help the whole community and save us time in job searches. We could eliminate and expose the $13/hr release mills.

That is where WDFF was so valuable. It was a central source of info, but our lack of interest sank that. I don't get it. Are we afraid of getting fired if we divulge what our employers are paying us, or just embarrassed?

 

[Pull To Guns]

of course, if they are bidding to take away from majors, that all goes downhill real fast!

HJD, you are correctomundo! Jepp will sell to the majors and regionals that they can do it cheaper than an in-house OCC. Start-up release mills across the country will attempt to underbid Jepp and the race to the bottom begins.

Just like when the majors outsourced flying to the regionals (and I am a regional airline sympathizer). Once this outsourcing happens, you can't put toothpaste back in the tube, its a done deal.

Pessimism is not my nature, but I see choppy waters ahead.

 

[MaceyHold]

"Very good" means different things to different folks. Actual numbers would be much more helpful if you know them.

Fantastic point. So what does "Very good" mean to you?

 

[Pull To Guns]

Fantastic point. So what does "Very good" mean to you?

I asked you first. You said Jepessen pays "very good". If you have those numbers, please share them with the rest of us. Then I will let you know if I think the pay fits within my personal "very good" range.

 

[clr4theapch]

Mesaba to Skywest range .. COL at the regional bases mean as much as the pay.. I tired to satr up the WDFF information last year, as I recall.. but there was little interest by the "vast Majority" of people here..

Frankly in this economy one has to look at stability and where their pay will be in 3,5, 7 years.. top out... all the starting pays are tough... but doable in some cases..

I support the ADF as a member... but I think the can of worms are already opened with the NPRM.. and the ADF will have alot of trouble getting this paragraph removed... whats next is anyones guess.. but I think changes are coming over the long run...

 

[Pull To Guns]

Mesaba to Skywest range .. COL at the regional bases mean as much as the pay.. I tired to satr up the WDFF information last year, as I recall.. but there was little interest by the "vast Majority" of people here..

Frankly in this economy one has to look at stability and where their pay will be in 3,5, 7 years.. top out... all the starting pays are tough... but doable in some cases..

I support the ADF as a member... but I think the can of worms are already opened with the NPRM.. and the ADF will have alot of trouble getting this paragraph removed... whats next is anyones guess.. but I think changes are coming over the long run...

I don't consider that "range" as Very Good on my personal scale. It is average regional starting pay. If current (or future) Jepp DX'er's are doing international, long haul flights as part of their duties for regional scale pay, then I would consider it decidedly below average.

I for one appreciate you efforts in trying to resurrect WDFF. It was a valuable resource. There seems to be a taboo on discussing specific wage information among ourselves. That is why WDFF didn't keep flying. I don't understand why a previous poster who apparently knows the Jepp numbers but is hesitant to share them.

As far as the ADF is concerned, I was a member one time and I am sure they do some good, but with the current economic climate and the magnitude of the proposed changes, they are useless as teats on a bull.

My advice is to get into a swapper/canceller position (Ops Controller or System Coordinator or whatever they are called at different airlines). The airlines will always need them onsite.

 

[clr4theapch]

Or going to private 135 ops.. some of them pay really quite well, of course, dispatching is only about 25% of the job....

I do see our skills being more an more needed/ requested, in these non-121 ops as we provide them with a significant insurance break and are good a grunt work ....JMHO..

 

[Pull To Guns]

Or going to private 135 ops.. some of them pay really quite well,

Ok, now we have the task of distinguishing between "Very Well" and "Quite Well"

Jepp is claimed to pay "Very Well" and Part 135 ops supposedly pays "Quite Well". Geez, does anyone get my effen point? Without numbers, these subjective opinions have no meaning. If you have some hard numbers it would be helpful to share them with the brothers and sisters of this forum.

I am looking to relocate back to the US the first of 2012 and I don't want to have to start from scratch and waste time chasing underpaying jobs. If you know a salary range, share it with us all. The favor may pay dividends for you in the future. I would do the same for you.

Gawd, its like pulling teeth!

 

[homerjdispatch]

Ok, now we have the task of distinguishing between "Very Well" and "Quite Well"

Jepp is claimed to pay "Very Well" and Part 135 ops supposedly pays "Quite Well". Geez, does anyone get my effen point? Without numbers, these subjective opinions have no meaning. If you have some hard numbers it would be helpful to share them with the brothers and sisters of this forum.

I am looking to relocate back to the US the first of 2012 and I don't want to have to start from scratch and waste time chasing underpaying jobs. If you know a salary range, share it with us all. The favor may pay dividends for you in the future. I would do the same for you.

Gawd, its like pulling teeth!

I could tell you what we make, but then everyone would be jealous and accuse us of riding coattails, and not paying our fair dues... LOL.. Come on back, the pay hasnt changed much, but the "total Compensation" kicks A$$ LOL LOL LOL

 

[bcp7]

OK - I'll chip in here. I have about 15 years experience as a Dispatcher, including about 30 months as Manager of Dispatch.

I recently interviewed with Jeppesen for an International Flight Planner position in support of their contract with Executive Jet Management/NetJets. Due to an expanded contract (adding EJM) they had 22 positions to fill.

I also had an interview with JetBlue for a System Controller position.

Jepps has offered 55k to start, plus 10% relocation, they combine vacation and sick time into Personal Time Off, 17 days a year for the first 4 years. In 2000, the pension plan was halted for new employees. They have substituted depositing to your 401k, 3% from age up to age 39, 4% up to 49 and 5% age 50 and over. In addition, they match .75 per dollar up to 6% for your 401k. There are no flight benefits.

For JetBlue, System Controller pay is Dispatcher pay plus 15%. Their current 1st year dispatcher pay is 55k. They have 5% of guaranteed profit sharing, plus a dollar for dollar match up to 5% in your 401k. They do not offer any relocation, not even a couple of weeks in a hotel to find an apartment. But they do have flight benefits. OTOH, when I went from DEN to JFK for the interview, every flight was full on a Monday and a Tuesday.

 

[polarjet205]

I'm new to this web site, been reading alot of posts since joining to get caught up the discussions.. I was wondering how worried is everyone about this new rule coming out on contract dispatching..
and would I be better off focusing on Jep or other services than the airlines.. now that everyone seems to have had their hiring run for the year..

 

[dispatchguy]

I'm not worried in the slightest.

Like I said on another forum, the QUALITY 121 operations will not use contract dispatching - your worldwide majors, and so on. They will want to keep those ops in house. However, those holding companies with multiple ops under their umbrella (SKYW, TSAH, and so on), I could see them going to it to eliminate the duplication of efforts.

The carriers who will lock on to this like a newborn to a boob will be the crappy carriers to begin with - the non quality 121 operations - to go faster in the race to the bottom.

I dont think Jepp will touch you without experience. I know that the ASA group is still hiring...

 

[AntiJedi]

However, those holding companies with multiple ops under their umbrella (SKYW, TSAH, and so on), I could see them going to it to eliminate the duplication of efforts.

So, that would include AMR as well?

Anyhow, SKYW and RAH most likely won't do it, especially if Jepp is paying their dispatchers nearly 1.5 times what those companies pay their own to start. If anything, on top of this, RAH and SKYW would find it cheaper still to keep most of the management they have now, and then throw their family OCCs into one ops building so that they remove the redundant overhead.

 

[bomberbubba]

so bcp7 which position did you take?

 

[Pull To Guns]

OK - I'll chip in here. I have about 15 years experience as a Dispatcher, including about 30 months as Manager of Dispatch.

I recently interviewed with Jeppesen for an International Flight Planner position in support of their contract with Executive Jet Management/NetJets. Due to an expanded contract (adding EJM) they had 22 positions to fill.

I also had an interview with JetBlue for a System Controller position.

Jepps has offered 55k to start, plus 10% relocation, they combine vacation and sick time into Personal Time Off, 17 days a year for the first 4 years. In 2000, the pension plan was halted for new employees. They have substituted depositing to your 401k, 3% from age up to age 39, 4% up to 49 and 5% age 50 and over. In addition, they match .75 per dollar up to 6% for your 401k. There are no flight benefits.

For JetBlue, System Controller pay is Dispatcher pay plus 15%. Their current 1st year dispatcher pay is 55k. They have 5% of guaranteed profit sharing, plus a dollar for dollar match up to 5% in your 401k. They do not offer any relocation, not even a couple of weeks in a hotel to find an apartment. But they do have flight benefits. OTOH, when I went from DEN to JFK for the interview, every flight was full on a Monday and a Tuesday.

Thanks bcp7, that was very helpful. This forum is morphing into a very good resource for our community.

Dispatchers are a relatively small group and the more we all communicate and share information, the better we will be overall.

The old WDFF couldn't get kickstarted back to life but I think this is just as good or better as well as the jobs thread.