Contract Dispatching

[WalterSobchak]

SkyWest DX'ers is doing just fine and is a good place to work. I know, I spent 10 years there. Pay and conditions there are as good as or better than most union shops. Representation is neither needed or wanted. Tits on a bull!

I'm hearing otherwise, these days...sounds like things aren't quite as rosy as they once were in Mecca.

 

[Pull To Guns]

I'm hearing otherwise, these days...sounds like things aren't quite as rosy as they once were in Mecca.

Walt,
I have been away for awhile. I have heard the rumors. But I enjoyed my time there, mostly due to my my buds and co-workers. Good times while I was there. Cheers!

 

[aviator202]

It always amazes me how men and women who work for wages always jeer about unions....

Scope clauses aren't perfect....but they are infinitely better than nothing at all. Just ask anyone who formerly worked in IT support in the USA...most of those jobs are now overseas.

This is why you NEVER want to work at home in you skivvies. That work can then instantly go overseas ! Put on your pants and go in to work because you want the career geographically located in the USA.

And returning to unions...Yep, they haven't made any of us wealthy. That isn't the point in any case. If you didn't have unions at the regionals, dispatching would pay $11/hr or about 23K a year. If you didn't have unions at the legacys, dispatching would pay $22/hr or about 45K a year. Unions have greatly increased wages across the board as well as improving work rules.

And while managements MIGHT want to get rid of onsite dispatching, a great body of data has been showing ( for a long time, I might add ) that overseas outsourcing costs a lot more than it saves ( i.e. Boeing 787 ).

 

[Kohflot]

And while managements MIGHT want to get rid of onsite dispatching, a great body of data has been showing ( for a long time, I might add ) that overseas outsourcing costs a lot more than it saves ( i.e. Boeing 787 ).

It doesn't stop them from trying. I'd bet $5 Boeing's next plane will be built the same way as the 787. And final assembly will likely be in South Carolina or overseas, as they've managed to ever-so-gently disable their Washington state unions.

 

[aviator202]

Again, many, many working men and women constantly put down/demonize unions...I really don't understand why. This is the only organization/resource that can improve the life of the working man. Yet so many have a "management" viewpoint...why??? Management (to quote Dilbert )..."Management would kill you in your sleep and sell your organs if they were able".

Also, so many working folks have never had first hand experience with belonging to and contributing to a union...it seems all they know is what they read in the newspapers ( paper or online ).

As to newspapers, they all have a Business section...why not also a Labor section?....Many years ago, they used to have such a section.

Working for wages is honorable. Workers deserve a voice and a say in their working lives. For those who feel the world would be better off without unions, what is your solution? No theories please....A solution that has proven to work for workers over time.

 

[airbrush]

Having never worked a job where we had a union, I can't comment either way on that. It does seem to me that in these days of rising fuel costs and the public's expectation of low fares, that the unions have very little leverage in the effort to improve wages.
But back to the original issue, what is the timeline on this NPRM and what is the process after that? Is this something that Congress will be voting on in the near future, or a long-term wishlist of changes that could be years in the future? Does this represent an urgent threat to our profession, or one that we have time to organize a response?

 

[Kohflot]

There's a 60 day comment period, then there's likely nothing stopping the FAA from 'gettin r done'. Maybe sometime in the fall? This is the second time they've gone around on this one.. the unions commented, the ADF commented, it stinks, so there's not much new to say.

I imagine there's also pressure to wrap it up from some quarters, as it gives the politicians the ability to go home and say "we made flying safer" after the Colgan crash.

 

[airbrush]

Great...so now we can all be contracted out in the name of "enhancing safety". Not sure about the math on that one, but I'm sure some lobbyist can make it all look legit. Just like raisning the pilot retirement age to 65....drip, drip, drip, and one day it's law. I lost a lot of money on that one with my side business, and now they're coming after the rest. Is there a specific congressman we can write to? It seems weird that the same legsilation that is supposed to address the safety issues surrounding Colgan 3407 would include a provision that the traveling public might see as counterproductive...IF they knew about it, which of course they don't. It would be neat if some congressman looking to make some noise could be brought on board.

 

[S5Dispatch]

Lets all find our Senators and Congressional Reps and write them.
You can cut and paste the following email or write your own if you are interested in letting them know our position.

http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Dear (Senator---/or Congressman ---)
​

• The NPRM Docket No. FAA-2008-067: Notice No. 08-07A is of enormous concern to me. It proposes to allow contract dispatching for part 121 air carriers. This would allow major airlines, like (*****) Airlines, to outsource Dispatcher jobs to flight planning mills like Jeppeson.

They tried this back in 2008, when the idea was defeated by safety advocates. Allowing the most safety critical aspects of operational control and flight planning to be outsourced to the lowest bidder would put America's public at risk.
Contract Dispatching would compromise safety, operational control, and mutual trust between the Captain and his/her FAR 121 Licensed Dispatcher and should never be allowed as an option with this NPRM.
I hope that you will urge the Congressional Aviation Sub-Committee to remove this language from the NPRM.
Aircraft Dispatchers work behind the scenes keeping you safe, monitoring weather conditions, tracking flights enroute, flight planning around turbulence and severe weather, while communicating with crews before, during and after their flights. The safety record we enjoy here in the U.S. has been attributed in part to the job Aircraft Dispatchers play every day in airline operations. In 1990 Avianca Flight 52 crashed at JFK, an accident attributed to their lack of Dispatcher operational control (Columbia and many foreign countries have no Dispatch operational control requirements). We have seen the safety consequences of allowing contract maintenance outside of the U.S., the consequences will be far more severe if contract dispatching is allowed.

Sincerely,


(Name)
Aircraft Dispatcher
(******) Airlines, City, State

​

(home address)​

 

[Kohflot]

It's Jeppesen.

And if you're curious to read their comments made back in 2009, look here:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2008-0677-0143.1

It's a PDF file.

 

[SierraPapa356]

as to the above post, I was Referring to the Politicians of course..

The ADF has put out its statement on this matter..

FAA decides to add "Contract Dispatching" to its earlier published 2009 NPRM while they claimed back in 2008 they were not interested:
On January 12, 2009, the FAA issued and published a noticed of proposed rulemaking on training qualifications, service, and use of crew members and aircraft dispatchers which ADF responded to 2009_NPRM_Response.pdf.
Now the FAA is attempting to push through "Contract Dispatching" as part of its newly published SNPRM with just 60 days to respond!
"Considering Contract Dispatching was not part of the original NPRM in 2009 and FAA also wrote a letter to us the stating they were not pursuing this in 2008, FAA_Response_to_ADF.pdf why such a urgency to add this?" Joseph Miceli, President of the ADF asked.
ADF has concerns with the FAA's urgent need to outsource FAR 121 dispatchers to the lowest bidder as part of it's latest published SNPRM putting America's flying public and world wide travelers at risk.
"Aircraft Dispatching is not like getting a bid to have your aircraft overhauled outside US soil" states Joe Miceli, "and you think the FAA would have learned from all those third party maintenance fines it has recently handed out". "Contract Dispatching can only compromising Safety, Operational Control, and Mutual Trust between the Captain and his/her FAR 121 Licensed Dispatcher and should NEVER be allowed as an option with this SNPRM".
ADF urgently suggests that ALL FAR 121 licensed Aircraft Dispatchers, members and union leadership respond to this SNPRM with factual informational and also write or contact you local elected state official on why this issue should not be allowed to continue!
ADF will send it's official comment to the FAA's SNPRM issued and reach out to the Congressional Aviation Sub-Committee insuring all parties are aware of this surprise addition to the original 2009 NPRM.
Members of ADF please know that your leadership and its board members are committed to having YOUR VOICE HEARD! ADF and it's membership pride itself on the highest single level of safety and continue to fight this and other attempts to lower the level of safety to the lowest bidder!
Sincerely,
Joseph J Miceli
President-Airline Dispatchers Federation

Hope they are successful in stopping this addition to the rule..

I am glad the ADF put out the 1st word on this I and am glad to be a dues paying member. I know others will follow that I need not mention here. What ever your personal feeling we all need to get everyone we know to send in comments to stop this rule. If allowed your career as you know it will be over in less than ten years. I hope that we have a labor friendly President that would not allow such a bill to be passed, if so vote him out! If 1/4 of the Dispatchers employed by US carriers were out during a shift the public would become very aware of the role the Dispatcher plays in safety of flight. Just saying......

 

[homerjdispatch]

Wrote my Senators and congressman... How do I comment on this?

 

[SierraPapa356]

http://www.regulations.gov/#!searchResults;cp=O;rpp=10;po=0;s=aircraft+dispatchers

try this link

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

Boycott Jepps...use Lido?!

 

[propsarebest]

Once you get used to it, LIDO is ONE MILLION times better than Jepp...

 

[Kohflot]

There's an important thing to remember here. This isn't about Jeppesen. They're a good company, and we can hardly blame them for seeking more business.

Some other company would be in support of this if Jepp wasn't.

 

[SKC]

Once you get used to it, LIDO is ONE MILLION times better than Jepp...

Which Jepp program are you comparing? You ought to see Dispatch Control. Quite a bit better than Ops Control if that's what you're using.

 

[propsarebest]

I meant their charts/plates. And LIDO is less than 1/3 the cost too.

 

[airbrush]

Jeppesen

Since there is at least a chance that this could be the future of our profession, is there anyone here who has experience working for Jeppesen or knows someone who does? It would be interesting to get a sense of how they threat their people, especially pay scales (since this is a cost-cutting measure after all), and whtever else they can share.

 

[Kohflot]

It would be interesting to get a sense of how they threat their people, especially pay scales (since this is a cost-cutting measure after all), and whatever else they can share.

I don't work for them, but know folks that do.

They pay well.
They have a nice HQ with a cafeteria and all (we have a few wheels of death).
At present, their dispatchers work part-time from home.