Continental Pilots Offering 70-seat Scope?

[10nCLR]

AHHHH, this is some great stuff? I don't know, but this guy sounds convincing. I can't wait for the conclusion!!

 

[Baronman]

To reiterate...XJT is hiring, yet we've been extremely short staffed this year. 200% pay for open time pick-up has been the norm for over a month as well as vacation buy-back program. This past month we had a huge number of cancellations for lack of crews.....so no, there is no secret aircraft order.

 

[Jetjockey]

Every rep I spoke to knows the importance of scope. UAL knows the lessons of scope better than anyone. Just look at the "Whiteford" terminal at the south end of the C concourse in ORD. Rj's where UNITED 737's (and real career positions) used to be.

As for the bunk that senior guys won't care, you forget scope attacks include the wide body (joint venture) aspect as well. This isn't a junior/senior, pay issue. This affects ALL pilots on the list.

Scope retention or a it's NO vote! It's just that simple.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Just wait til this summer in ORD. Rumor has it that RJ's will occupy at least 10 more B and C gates. Talk about another stupd move by management to rally the troops even more. Tick tick tick.......

 

[Jetjockey]

Just wait til this summer in ORD. Rumor has it that RJ's will occupy at least 10 more B and C gates. Talk about another stupd move by management to rally the troops even more. Tick tick tick.......

Sounds like current management. Ready, Fire, Aim!

Just like selling 70 seat RJ code share out CAL hubs thinking they could ram down the throats of the pilots. IF they continue this current trajectory with the pilots, there may be a LOT of open gates all over the world.

 

[JUNK YARD DOG]

sigh...

No wonder you guys have screwed yourselves over so bad on scope. You're all more interested in discrediting warnings than actually protecting scope.

Let me know how that works out. So far, you're batting 0.

suck it

 

[007]

76 seat scope relief coming to Unical......I am still convinced that Smisek will play some Retirement/Pension and F/O payraise curveball that'll get a TA to pass. I hope I'm wrong, I don't want to be at XJT for another 7 yrs but when it comes to the Senior guys eating the young the track record is bad.
You have to admit that. I hope you guys stand strong but I doubt you'll get past the senior guys' greed.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

Most UA guys already know that more RJs = many wll lose their jobs and seniority (as they saw with their 737s)..
1/3 of CAL are mostly young guys who came from the commuters.. i highly doubt they'd agree to scope release just to be in a risk of going back where they just came from..
So that alone is more than half of the UA-CAL pilot group that opposes bigger RJs..
Time will tell, but knowing our new Jeff Lorenzo he will definitelly try all his dirty trics and piss people off, driving morale and productivity to the lows before he gives in. He doesn't seem to mind trying even it if means looking stupid in the end- like the example with the 70 seaters in CAL hubs.. ya that woked out very well for him (and he became a laughing stock for a week after the arbitration was won for the pilots).

 

[ualdriver]

I'm hearing from some people on the United side of the negotiating table that the pilots have already offered 70-seat scope limits at new United and they're now negotiating the possibility of higher limits.

Please, please, please tell me ALPA isn't throwing away more scope at a time when they finally have the power to hold the line! If I wasn't told by someone at the table I wouldn't believe it, but this guys just too close to be speculating.

Please identify who "some people" are? Because I am hearing from "some people" that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[calfo]

I'm at 12 years seniority at Continental... and I'm ready to walk out over ANY relaxation of scope.

Bring it.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

There goes the rest of the CAL pilot group..
Thank you calfo.. im 100% with you..

We just all have to remember that contract 2002 is taking a decade to go away (and that's why mngmt is still fighting hard to hang on to it as long as they can).. Whatever we vote in now will be around for another decade. Let's be smart on this one guys..

 

[tmac3333]

I'm still waiting for the scope violations to stop...saw another one DFW to IAH last week. Enough already.

 

[say again]

Please identify who "some people" are? Because I am hearing from "some people" that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Ding ding ding!

 

[Skippy]

I'm still waiting for the scope violations to stop...saw another one DFW to IAH last week. Enough already.

please take a photo and email it to ur reps-- im sure they know what to do with it.

 

[bvt1151]

Just FYI for you hard-liners:

United believes that they can already add as many 70-seaters as they need under United scope and can simply ignore any complaints from the pilots. Since the code will be a UA code anyway, they don't feel that Continental's scope language is relevant.

I find that hard to believe, but can't come up with any reason they can't just add unlimited 70's and say it fits under the United clause. What prevents them from doing this?

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

You're right bvt.. what prevents it is us shutting the place down and walking out if it comes to that. Without the pilots 'making nice' for the company, they will never achieve their so much advertised sinergies. That means possible pressure on mngmt from the stock holders to maybe finally change their tactics.

CAL has become a joke to work at nowadays..
Jeff's pure disrespect for the pilots and pure ignorance for leading this company in good direction just amazes me. He had the opportunity to seize the deal flawlessly by copying Anderson at Delta. No, his ego was too big and now we plummeted to being near the bottom when it comes to morale and productivity (look at our on-time and sick calls). His biggest dirty trick with the FAs was threatening them with profit sharing to sign the contract and at the same time making parties with dollar sign cup cakes.. (but unfortunatelly it worked and they signed it).

We're starting to lose the quality of our service. We already cut off free food, charge for exit row seats, overcharge for TVs (that not too many buy).. His latest.. cut off free peanuts and pretzels to save $2.5 million annually.. really? That's pocket change (especially comparing to what he could save by having better labor relationships)! As silly as it may sound, pax valued having those free pretzels. I know because i've asked this many, many FAs what they thought of the idea, but of course Jeff never did (another mistake he does by never coming down to the 'floor' to see how this airline really runs).
Looks like we're back to counting beans and tripping over quarters to pick up pennys.

This company is changing so much on daily basis (not for better either). I really don't think there is a whole lot of morale left here for pilots to want to do anything 100% anymore. It's nothing personal, just simple management 101- treat your work force like crap and you'll get the same in return.. Sad, but that's Jeffs ignorant way..

Welcome to new Continental

 

[Denizen]

You're right bvt.. what prevents it is us shutting the place down and walking out if it comes to that.

And do what? What is a 40, 45 or 50 year old pilot going to go do to make 100k/year? I always wonder what the late middle aged pilot back up plan is. I know internet pilots all have 300k a year side gigs, but what is the average pilot with a wife and kids going to do? Burn the place down? I don't think so. It has always seemed as such an empty threat, and I think mgt knows this.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

So do what.. do nothing and keep working for the most profitable major out there with the worst working conditions (worse than even many commuters out there - EXAMPLE: our company training is considered a day off.. Days rolled and RES callout changed without pay.. Point me an airline that has that in their contract)??

Fyi Spirit got released to a strike.. that was big news not only for them but for the majors also- that paved the way for others to at least get a chance for strike release as well. Management knows that too.

Empty threats? I don't think so.. Record high sick calls in December 2010.. Wait till summer 2011 rolls around. I have never seen CAL scheduling in such a turmoil for lack of crews.. That's empty threats to you?

Stay behind and keep asking "what about my kids, family.. how am i gonna put food on table.." Typical BS tales.. There are whimps at CAL too who will cross the line (again).. i agree, but they're not majority here anymore. I just hope you're not one of them..

 

[Denizen]

So do what.. do nothing and keep working for the most profitable major out there with the worst working conditions (worse than even many commuters out there - EXAMPLE: our company training is considered a day off.. Days rolled and RES callout changed without pay.. Point me an airline that has that in their contract)??

Fyi Spirit got released to a strike.. that was big news not only for them but for the majors also- that paved the way for others to at least get a chance for strike release as well. Management knows that too.

Empty threats? I don't think so.. Record high sick calls in December 2010.. Wait till summer 2011 rolls around. I have never seen CAL scheduling in such a turmoil for lack of crews.. That's empty threats to you?

Stay behind and keep asking "what about my kids, family.. how am i gonna put food on table.." Typical BS tales.. There are whimps at CAL too who will cross the line (again).. i agree, but they're not majority here anymore. I just hope you're not one of them..

So, no plan "B" just playing the scab card. I suspect an extra packet of pretzels and a 3% raise and you will ratify whatever contract you will get. Without a transferable set of skills, you don't have much leverage.

Yes, that was quite the industry leading contract that the Spirit guys signed after going on strike. Good thing it is cheap to live in DTW.

 

[nerjdriver]

Don't under estimate the resolve on the UA side. Remember we have had a first hand look at the ramifications of our scope clause. Over 1400 of our pilots are no longer here. I personally am in the top 60% of the list at UAL and have ZERO intention of relaxing any scope for a payraise. I assure you this is the mentality by the magority of the top 60 % and probably close to 100% of the bottom 40 %.

Had a UA guy in the jumpseat a while back....his EXACT WORDS "scope for CAL guys is gone....theres just no denying that"


Im just saying. Flame away

 

[ATRCA]

So do what.. do nothing and keep working for the most profitable major out there with the worst working conditions (worse than even many commuters out there - EXAMPLE: our company training is considered a day off.. Days rolled and RES callout changed without pay.. Point me an airline that has that in their contract)??

Fyi Spirit got released to a strike.. that was big news not only for them but for the majors also- that paved the way for others to at least get a chance for strike release as well. Management knows that too.

Empty threats? I don't think so.. Record high sick calls in December 2010.. Wait till summer 2011 rolls around. I have never seen CAL scheduling in such a turmoil for lack of crews.. That's empty threats to you?

Stay behind and keep asking "what about my kids, family.. how am i gonna put food on table.." Typical BS tales.. There are whimps at CAL too who will cross the line (again).. i agree, but they're not majority here anymore. I just hope you're not one of them..

The staffing is very poor on the 73 in IAH and EWR. Those are the only BES's with terrible staffing. I know how popular it is to claim that CAL has crew cancellations all the time but a 5 minute CCS tour will provide a different picture. Take a look at EWR 756 for the month.....after that, take a look at the reserve availability for the next few days and look at all the reserves with "0" line values for the month.

It's the 17th and the coverage for most of the month is at or above min with a bunch of guys who haven't flown at all this month. Looking at the awards for some of those guys and their YTD flying, EWR 756 is a really laid back gig at this point.

I'll stipulate that the 73 is not, but there is no company wide pilot crisis at the moment. The rsv 777 folks are also not sweating much to be near the airport on their reserve days....

I'm not sure what the master plan is or why the 756 staffing is so much better than the 73 but at this point life on those two fleets couldn't be much more opposite.

 

[Jetjockey]

"I'm just saying"

WTF does that even mean? So you had some guy on your jumpseat who says..............

This place is full of idiots and trolls. I'll see the real UAL/CAL guys on the picket line. Oh, how will I survive? It's called living way below your means, a working spouse, 8 months of living expenses cash, and ready to do what it takes to make it better.

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

756 isn't the work horse at CAL, the 737 is.. And the 737 is staffed so horribly that they're taking away agressive pickups from RES guys just to cover their crap, besides rolling days off and changing long call to short (because of our contract- at no cost of course)..

You may be right on the 756 life for now, but it will all change this summer.. We will see if you like your 18day in a row work days (because of your legal 24hr rest in Europe).. and if you like your 10days off when you have training (because of training not being treated as duty day)..
You don't seem to mind the comfortable 'rest seat' in the back and the pathetic int'l $2 per diem..

Well if you're ok with that that's fine, but im not and i simply won't stand for this s%it even if it takes me getting a job at some damn WallMart for a couple months.. I didn't come to CAL to spend the rest of my career with work rules worse than most commuters out there and with some of the highest management salaries in the airline industry (look at the statistics).

 

[BigMeat]

BVT1151 is not totally wrong. They have been discussing the allowance of a ratio between mainiline and the regionals. They know they cant park them so the idea is to limit their growth. Dont believe me CAL guys? Call the lead negotiator and ask. Call Pierce and ask. He will not devulge any of it. Oh and to you UAL guys watch Wendy. She is not as hardcore as you might think. I feel a decert effort on the horizon soon. About the same time that they come out with the crappy TA. I will be on the forefront of that when it happens...

I normally dont post on here anymore. I just read. I wish it was just a rumor. Is it going to make it onto our TA? I hope not. I do know it is being discussed.

 

[eaglesview]

Had a UA guy in the jumpseat a while back....his EXACT WORDS "scope for CAL guys is gone....theres just no denying that"


Im just saying. Flame away

1. You have already flamed away so I will leave that to you.

2. "you had a guy" is about as weak as it gets. Really one guy on a jumpseat and you have it all figured out. GMAFB

 

[eaglesview]

BVT1151 is not totally wrong. They have been discussing the allowance of a ratio between mainiline and the regionals. They know they cant park them so the idea is to limit their growth. Dont believe me CAL guys? Call the lead negotiator and ask. Call Pierce and ask. He will not devulge any of it. Oh and to you UAL guys watch Wendy. She is not as hardcore as you might think. I feel a decert effort on the horizon soon. About the same time that they come out with the crappy TA. I will be on the forefront of that when it happens...

I normally dont post on here anymore. I just read. I wish it was just a rumor. Is it going to make it onto our TA? I hope not. I do know it is being discussed.

You are probably correct. There will be no agreement where the company agrees to park all of the 70 seaters. That is not realistic. There will be a ratio of some sort either hulls or hours and we will move on.

 

[Flyforyou]

I didn't come to CAL to spend the rest of my career with work rules worse than most commuters out there and with some of the highest management salaries in the airline industry (look at the statistics).

This sums up the thoughts of just about everyone hired since 2005.

 

[BrickTop]

A theory to digest: When the greedy nature of senior pilots sells out the future of their succeeding youth generations, that generation morphs their political and personal agendas to to the benefit of their recognized reality.

 

[Erlanger]

No flamebait here but I think folks are getting this idea from what the CAL ALPA Pres said recently. He said quote, "there will probably be provisions made for 70 seat flying in the next contract." (he was referring to this flying being done by the regionals and not UAL/CAL and was making this remark as his own opinion.)


Now we all can speculate what was meant by this remark.

 

[nimtz]

No flamebait here but I think folks are getting this idea from what the CAL ALPA Pres said recently. He said quote, "there will probably be provisions made for 70 seat flying in the next contract." (he was referring to this flying being done by the regionals and not UAL/CAL and was making this remark as his own opinion.)


Now we all can speculate what was meant by this remark.

Without getting deeper into this can your source this please? BTW who is the CAL ALPA President? Whoever he/she is their job title must not carry any power. Perhaps you mean the MEC Chairman whose name is Jay Pierce. There now go do the rest of your home work RJ Capt. This thread is doing an A+ job of proving the effectiveness of the game of telephone.